[RHat]

It's all about the right tool for the right job - in general, your "running silent" weapon is going to be different from your general purpose weapon, too.

[CanRay]

The Warhawk is a great gun to pull out and intimidate others when you don't want to pack a Shotgun.  With a shortened barrel, it's not even that large a weapon to try and conceal, but still has the troll thumb-sized muzzle to point at someone like the FINGER OF DOOM!!!

[Mirikon]

Now don't get me wrong, a Warhawk with APDS rounds is a thing of beauty for taking down vehicles, drones, and trolls. But against other things, I prefer weapons that either have burst fire or higher ammo capacities. Or I step past the 'pistol' level, and get into things like assault rifles and longarms. A Barrett 121 with APDS ammo is basically silent death.

[KarmaInferno]

If you're gonna go big, go big.

A tactical nuke is very intimidating.



-k

[Aryeonos]

Just run around shouting waving a TV remote with the letters THOR spray painted on it.

[CanRay]

If you're gonna go big, go big.

A tactical nuke is very intimidating.

-k

In a motorcycle sidecar?  Hooked up to your cybernetic biomonitor? 

[All4BigGuns]

Just run around shouting waving a TV remote with the letters THOR spray painted on it.

Modify the Aesir satellite with Large Fire Selection Change to Full Auto and add High Velocity. There's your Suppressive Fire.

[Aryeonos]

Hack the remote to spoof commands to the satellite, then land it on the first guy who says that's a TV remote.

[SpatulaODoom]

I had a bit of time free at work today so I wrote down a couple of thoughts regarding the Fubuki versus the Warhawk and a bit on the Thunderbolt too.

Is there something I'm missing here that makes burst fire intrinsically better regardless of the relative damage/ap codes? Because, with the exception of stickies (read below), having a damage 6 and ap of -2 seems to me to be better than burst firing 4 (for +2 damage) with ap of 0.

[spoiler=TLDR Thoughts]I'm not going to pretend the Fubuki's a garbage weapon. It's top tier, but I don't think it's notably better than the Warhawk.

Damage: Sure burstfire means it's great when compared to other light pistols, but when compared to the Warhawk it's not so hot. Assuming the same type of ammo a burst fire only jumps the Fubuki's damage up by 2 points to 6, which is what the Warhawk gets without burst fire. But the Warhawk has a base AP of -2 while the fubuki's still sitting with its 0. Because burst fire doesn't count towards your ability to penetrate armor then you're looking at an effective 4 points over the Fubuki when it comes to things like spirits with hardened armor.

The exception, as always, is Stick-n-shock ammo. There's a reason why it's usually the first thing to get the nerf stick, along with emotitoys. It's called "why my holdout has a greater effect on most targets than your shotgun with exploding shells." When dealing with anything with a damage code of 6 or lower there's very little reason to use any other form of ammunition. Depending on how your GM deals with Stickies and the prevalence of non-conductivity armor mods the Fubuki is either more or less useful in comparison to the hawk when you include stickies.

Reloading: The Fubuki takes 4 complex actions to reload. One per muzzle loading. With fourty rounds you're probably not going to have to worry about it in the middle of combat, but you never know. Side note: does anyone think the pic of the fubuki looks awfully short for having 10 rounds stacked end to end in each barrel? The warhawk requires either an agility of 6-8 or a speedloader to reload in one complex action. They're both worse than a box mag weapon, but the hawk comes out on top in reloading. With the fubuki's better ammo capacity (13 bursts and 1 single shot) and the Wharhawk's better reload I'd call this a wash, especially since they're both more likely to be backup weapons or used in situations where you're only firing a few shots anyway.

Concealability: Fubuki wins there no question. At 0 mod the Warhawk isn't bad either.

Modifications: Quick note, because the Fubuki has an "unusual loading mechanism or exotic ammunition" it can't be modified for full auto. Other than that and the suppressor

Cost/availability: I don't think there's anyone who will argue that the Fubuki's cheaper. It's base cost is 8x the Warhawk. Your ammunition costs are 3x per trigger pull. Suppressors eventually have to be replaced. Mods that have the "weapon cost" in the code somewhere are 8(ish)x the cost of a Warhawk. If you go with the Fubuki and mod it a bit then it's going to be a big enough chunk of change that you'll be loath to toss it. I think the availability is quite a bit higher on the fubuki as well so it'll take longer to pick one up if you've got the need.

The Fubuki's range is marginally less than the Warhawk, marginally.

Added later: As for the Thunderbolt I'd say it's the best of most worlds. The only major weakness immediately obvious is very limited ammunition capacity for a weapon that can only burstfire without modification. Four trigger pulls before you need a reload. That's right, worse than a revolver. Extended Clip only gets you 3 more rounds but the Additional Clip mod will fix that for the most part (albeit costing you 2 mod slots and doubling the cost). The added bulk is offset by being able to mix ammo, making it almost as versatile as a warhawk with an ammo skip.
It'll definitely put out better damage than the Warhawk since you're starting with the Heavy Pistol damage code rather than a light pistol. Negating the 5ish recoil is harder because a heavy pistol can't take  alot of the mods of a SMG or machine pistol. Electronic firing or custom grip, folding stock, and underbarrel weight seem to be the only options available on a quick scan. Ammunition problems and negating the recoil is going to take up most of your mod slots and plenty of money, limiting your ability to experiment and personalize, but at least it won't wind up as expensive as the Fubuki.

Image:
Warhawk: Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? "It's big. Non-regulation big. On cold nights you can fill the barrel with hot water and have yerself a bath."
Fubuki: Sleek smexy futuristic gun for the high class runner with big bank and no need to hide the fact.
Thunderbolt: "Dead or alive, you're coming with me." Sort of a midway point between the two in terms of technology/flash. You might loose points for using a "cop's" gun, or you might gain points depending on exactly how you got it.
Winner? You decide.
[/spoiler]

If you need intimidation, make it a more personal statement than a nuke or a big gun. A cheese grater covered in blood and with bone splinters stuck in the teeth. You don't even have to brandish it or make a big deal, just hang it off the hip and let people's imaginations do the work for you. Just try saying "cheese grater to the forehead" without wincing.

[Mirikon]

You're forgetting some key points that add to the usefulness of the weapon, Spatula. Namely, firing modes, stealth, and ammo capacity.

Firing modes: Let's look at that comparison you made before. 6P, -2 AP for the Warhawk, right? Compare that to 6P, +0 AP x2 for a Fubuki. Two defense tests to fail, two soak rolls to glitch. With a SS weapon, yeah, you get a bigger hole on that one shot. But BF allows you to do more damage, overall, even with a smaller gun. And then you get to SnS ammo. 6S(e), -half AP once, vs 8S(e), -half AP x2. Two defenses to fail, tow soaks to glitch, two "don't taze me, bro" rolls to deal with.

Stealth: It is much easier to suppress a a Fubuki. When you're going soft, keeping the weapon quiet is a good thing. Especially when you need to take down one guard, without alerting all his buddies that he's down. Take him down quick with two quiet short burts while he's unaware of you, rather than relying on a single shot from a very loud gun.

Ammo Capacity: I have never had to reload a Fubuki in the middle of a firefight. For mages, hackers, faces, and other such types, it really is an ideal weapon, unless you want to go with the shotgun. Yes, for the street sammy there are better options. But for a mage as something to use between manabolts? This thing is GOLD.

[SpatulaODoom]

"You're forgetting some key points that add to the usefulness of the weapon, Spatula. Namely, firing modes, stealth, and ammo capacity."

Actually I did cover all those points. Did you read the long winded bit under the spoiler tags? I think the only thing I didn't actually cover was giving the Warhawk the 1 slot 250 cred firing selection change to SA, but I figured that was a given.

[JoeNapalm]

If you're gonna go big, go big.

A tactical nuke is very intimidating.

-k

In a motorcycle sidecar?  Hooked up to your cybernetic biomonitor? 

"Poor Impulse Control"


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Anarkitty]

You're forgetting some key points that add to the usefulness of the weapon, Spatula. Namely, firing modes, stealth, and ammo capacity.

Firing modes: Let's look at that comparison you made before. 6P, -2 AP for the Warhawk, right? Compare that to 6P, +0 AP x2 for a Fubuki. Two defense tests to fail, two soak rolls to glitch. With a SS weapon, yeah, you get a bigger hole on that one shot. But BF allows you to do more damage, overall, even with a smaller gun. And then you get to SnS ammo. 6S(e), -half AP once, vs 8S(e), -half AP x2. Two defenses to fail, tow soaks to glitch, two "don't taze me, bro" rolls to deal with.

Modding the Warhawk to SA makes it 550¥ and 4R.  The Sakura is still 2000¥ and 10R.

Stealth: It is much easier to suppress a a Fubuki. When you're going soft, keeping the weapon quiet is a good thing. Especially when you need to take down one guard, without alerting all his buddies that he's down. Take him down quick with two quiet short burts while he's unaware of you, rather than relying on a single shot from a very loud gun.

Silencing the Warhawk is an expensive and illegal mod, and a pain in the ass.  This is a situation where the Warhawk does not excel, but no one has ever claimed it is a stealth weapon.
I'll give you that it is easier to get a suppressor for a Sakura Fubuki, but you still need four of them, at 300¥ and 12F each.

Ammo Capacity: I have never had to reload a Fubuki in the middle of a firefight. For mages, hackers, faces, and other such types, it really is an ideal weapon, unless you want to go with the shotgun. Yes, for the street sammy there are better options. But for a mage as something to use between manabolts? This thing is GOLD.

Assuming you have the SA mod, you will need to reload a Warhawk every three rounds (four rounds with the 500¥/4R Increased Cylinder mod).  With a speed loader, you can reload it in one complex action.
A Fubuki will need to be reloaded every six and a half rounds, and reloading requires four complex actions.

That means in a short firefight (three rounds), neither weapon will need to be reloaded. 
In a medium length firefight (six rounds) a SA Warhawk will fire during four of them and reload during two of them, while the Fubuki will be able to fire every round, but it will be effectively empty at the end.  If the Warhawk has an Increased Cylinder, it will be able to fire during five and only reload during one, and at the end it will still have six rounds in the cylinder in case something goes wrong.
In an extended firefight (ten rounds) the SA Warhawk will spend 8 rounds firing and two rounds reloading, and the Fubuki will run out of ammo on round 6, and spend the rest of the fight reloading.


Obviously the Sakura Fubuki is better at some things, but to say it is the superior weapon in general is simply not borne out by the facts.

[RHat]

The Fubuki is what you replace the Thunderbolt with if circumstances call for a light pistol.  Though, comparing an unmodified Fubuki to a modified Warhawk isn't a fair comparison.

[JoeNapalm]

You guys are skipping the most important stat of all.

"How well does it go with this outfit?"


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist