[All4BigGuns]

It's #1.

Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.

Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?

I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it.  Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes.  The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes.  Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.

Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).

I meant comparative to skills.  I'd be fine with x4 or even maybe x3 if skill costs dropped enough.  But when a single skill group costs x5 and a attribute costs x5 there is a cost balance issue.

Well, the cost I was giving on skills would be for individual skills. Groups should cost about the same as attributes (at least in 4th), but now that they've gone and them all 3 skills, I could see reducing the multiplier by one using the attribute cost as a base.

[Shinobi Killfist]

It's #1.

Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.

Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?

I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it.  Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes.  The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes.  Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.

Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).

I meant comparative to skills.  I'd be fine with x4 or even maybe x3 if skill costs dropped enough.  But when a single skill group costs x5 and a attribute costs x5 there is a cost balance issue.

Well, the cost I was giving on skills would be for individual skills. Groups should cost about the same as attributes (at least in 4th), but now that they've gone and them all 3 skills, I could see reducing the multiplier by one using the attribute cost as a base.

Given that there are multiple groups per many attributes why should groups cost the same or near the same.  Why would I ever improve my performance group until my charisma is capped when charisma will improve than and another group I want to invest in?  I mean yeah if the performance group is like 1 or 2 and my charisma is 7 I might bump it to 3 first but past incompetent at the skill level it would be attributes all the way. 

[Patrick Goodman]

While number 2 seems more reasonable to you, the actual answer is number 1. Have fun.

[All4BigGuns]

It's #1.

Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.

Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?

I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it.  Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes.  The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes.  Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.

Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).

I meant comparative to skills.  I'd be fine with x4 or even maybe x3 if skill costs dropped enough.  But when a single skill group costs x5 and a attribute costs x5 there is a cost balance issue.

Well, the cost I was giving on skills would be for individual skills. Groups should cost about the same as attributes (at least in 4th), but now that they've gone and them all 3 skills, I could see reducing the multiplier by one using the attribute cost as a base.

Given that there are multiple groups per many attributes why should groups cost the same or near the same.  Why would I ever improve my performance group until my charisma is capped when charisma will improve than and another group I want to invest in?  I mean yeah if the performance group is like 1 or 2 and my charisma is 7 I might bump it to 3 first but past incompetent at the skill level it would be attributes all the way.

Remember, in the last post you quoted, I did say that I could see the multiplier being one less for skill groups than attributes with the new stuff.

[Zentdiam]

The skill cap is also 12 now. So max is 6 at creation and max 12 without taking a quality. This balances out with limits. Having agi 6 and 12 skill points only goes so far if your gun caps you at a limit of 3. That's the trade off. Starting with high skills lowers your attributes and starting money.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Seems like an interesting balancing act.  High dicepool low threshold gives consistant results.  High threshold low dicepool gives lower results on average but has a chance to spike higher.  I assume the best system will be to make sure your average hits matches your threshold, of course.

[The Big Peat]

The sensible thing would be to have a threshold a little above your average, allowing you to benefit from lucky shots, use edge and so on.

I have to say that, while not in favour of a threshold, it does seem more logical when you consider the possibility of people running around with massive skill ratings on dump stats.

[PeterSmith]

The sensible thing would be to have a threshold a little above your average, allowing you to benefit from lucky shots, use edge and so on.

One of the Edge use options is to blow past success limits.