[Reaver]

Ever thought about it from the other side?
What does a Runner have to make per month to cover his costs?

(Looking at my Elf Weapons Specialist here ... he has 132 Karma now)

Lifestyle
- Two Appartments (1 Middle-ish 1 Low-ish)
- Two Bolt Holes
- One Safehouse
- One Little Warehouse for his Armorer Facility
That is about 14k / month

IDs / SINs
- One Rating 6 SIN with 6 Licenses Must be expected to be burnt during a run
That's another 10k

Ammunition / expendable items / medical supplies
- Ammunition costs up to 45 NuYen per Bullet, do the math (and that is Handguns only, no Heavy Weapons). Depending on the run that can get real expensive real fast.
- Grenades and Explosives
- Medical Patches
- MedKit refills
- Bills from the Street Doc (if it goes really wrong)
Estimated that would normally be 3k+

Equipment
- Damage to / loss of: Weapons, Armor, Vehicles, Drones, Foci has to be factored in. Depending on Profession this can add up quickly too.
- Upkeep for hacked programs (2k / month)

Contacts
I calculate a hundred NuYen per rating per month at least for keeping the contacts happy.
In this case that would be 4000 NuYen per month

going out / getting new clothes / drugs etc.
Another 1000 at least. Why should I be running if I cannot have some fun now and then?

Then there is new Equipment to buy etc.

I cannot see how he can go with less than 50k to 60k per month. And that should also factor into what he asks for specific jobs and what the Johnson should pay him.

THIS is a prime example of the "Monty Haul" mindset. If we assume 6 karma a run, this character has only done 22 runs... and yet has afforded ALL these things listed (and those things NOT listed, like the actual weapons, cyberware, bioware, etc) and his GM has now painted himself into the corner I listed above...

[Nal0n]

So money is the be-all, end-all of things?
Why should Runners not have the money to enjoy themselvse?

You can always control gear and stuff via availability and such.

I'd rather be a Runner who can afford a better Lifestyle and go on partying (you know, Rock Star like) and do not get my next upgrade anytime soon, than a sorry son-of-a-bitch who turns every nuYen around until it is all shiny and never can afford anything.

At our table we spend A LOT of NuYen on stuff most of the other groups do not even care about, and we ask the prices to keep on doing so. That so bad?

Not every runner is a greedy bastard that just looks for the next upgrade...

[RHat]

So money is the be-all, end-all of things?
Why should Runners not have the money to enjoy themselvse?

You can always control gear and stuff via availability and such.

I'd rather be a Runner who can afford a better Lifestyle and go on partying (you know, Rock Star like) and do not get my next upgrade anytime soon, than a sorry son-of-a-bitch who turns every nuYen around until it is all shiny and never can afford anything.

At our table we spend A LOT of NuYen on stuff most of the other groups do not even care about, and we ask the prices to keep on doing so. That so bad?

Not every runner is a greedy bastard that just looks for the next upgrade...

Like it or not, the game is built such that income is a major progression mechanic.  If a Street Sam wastes a bunch of money, he's gonna fall well behind the Awakened characters because he relies on nuyen to progress far more than he does Karma.

[ZeConster]

So money is the be-all, end-all of things?
Why should Runners not have the money to enjoy themselvse?

You can always control gear and stuff via availability and such.

I'd rather be a Runner who can afford a better Lifestyle and go on partying (you know, Rock Star like) and do not get my next upgrade anytime soon, than a sorry son-of-a-bitch who turns every nuYen around until it is all shiny and never can afford anything.

At our table we spend A LOT of NuYen on stuff most of the other groups do not even care about, and we ask the prices to keep on doing so. That so bad?

Not every runner is a greedy bastard that just looks for the next upgrade...

A runner that requires 50k per month (that's 600k per year, people!) is a greedy bastard. There's a difference between spending a lot of nuyen on stuff other than "upgrades", and simply wasting it. You burn a Rating 6 SIN every run? Two Bolt Holes and a Safehouse? I thought Safehouses were the hotel versions of Bolt Holes, and that you don't pay for them unless you actually use them? Keeping your contacts happy can overlap with expenses, can't it, simply by buying stuff through them? Aren't the only rounds that cost 45¥ Assault Cannon rounds? And going out and getting new clothes is covered by your Lifestyle. All in all, it seems you could easily cut your expenses by a third or more by simply not spending nuyen on stuff you won't actually use or which is covered by other expenses already, and being more cautious with your runs.

You don't actually have to choose between living comfortably and advancing, if you're a little economical. Share a Lifestyle with 1 other teammate, and it's 55% of the costs for both, meaning that Middle Lifestyle only costs 750¥ more than a Low one you don't share, instead of 3000¥.
As a bit of an experiment, I share a High Lifestyle with 2 other characters in a campaign (which helps explain why we go on runs with each other) - that's 4000¥/month/person, and by all taking Day Job 2, cutting our available waking hours from 112/week to 92/week, we reduce the effective cost to 1500¥/month/person. Why do we go to this much effort? Because there's something funny about drinking chocolate milk from crystal wine glasses in Shadowrun.

[Reaver]

When you can afford to "spend" $50k a MONTH on just upkeep at only 22 missions under your belt, yes I would say it's a "Monty Haul" game.

I don't care what you choose to spend your money on, it's the fact that you CAN spend that much month, and have done so and now expect it from EVERY Johnson that comes along. Simply put, it limits the options the GM has for telling a story by now forcing every Johnson to be multi-millionaires just to hire a team.

If that's that the way you want to play, fine. Nothing is stopping you and I am sure you are all enjoying yourself, but it is still by definition a "Monty Haul" game and you shouldn't expect that level of payouts at the next table you play at or even the next Campaign at your current table.