[JackVII]

Yeah, I don't really agree with it, to be honest. It just seems that is how it is written. Personally, I think a reasonable house-rule would be that a character can take interrupt defensive actions as long as they have an initiative score greater than 0. So, your initiative 10 guy could take two defensive interrupts or a full defense action, but after that they're done.

In fact, reading the Interrupt Action section, it seems to imply that is how it is supposed to work:

When a character uses an Interrupt Action, such as Full Defense, he takes an action out of turn, but only if he has enough Initiative Score left in the Combat Turn to pay the price for the action.

Since specific overrules general, I have to go with the "not as exact" language in the Defending In Combat section or go with a houserule. The next line of the Interrupt Action section even implies that initiative can willingly be dropped below 0, although they may be referring to jumping from VR to meat or other initiative changing actions.

[Michael Chandra]

This one got asked in the FAQ on July 12th by the way, and hasn't been answered yet.

[mrcatman]

If you have to make the unarmed attack as part of the spell casting, can you try to do damage with the attack in addition to the spell?

I've seen other threads on this, but I personally don't think so. A melee attack (with the intention of causing damage) requires a Complex action. Casting the touch spell requires a Complex Action (or Simple Action if reckless) and happens to include the unarmed/touch as part of it for the purpose of discharging the spell (touching the subject, not trying to damage them with your fist). Don't see how you can do both in one turn.

Can you give an example of an indirect combat touch spell being used (both direct and indirect please)?

p.281, under step 2 (top right column), touch spells don't require you see target, but must make unarmed attack to make contact with unwilling target. Touch through clothes/armor/paint is fine.
p.173, under "grazing hit" - touch-only combat spells can succeed if the opposed test is a tie
p.187, under "touch-only attack" - you get +2 to unarmed skill attack dice pool to touch foe

So simply make your touch attack (unarmed skill + agility, limit physical), with +2 to attack dice pool. You succeed if you get a tie, or if you get more hits.

p.283, under "combat spells", lists what you do for the "direct" vs. "indirect" aspect. In short, for direct, roll Spellcasting+MAG vs. BOD (for physical spells) or WIL (for mana spells), with net hits = damage dealt (there is no base damage value for these). For indirect, it's like normal mundane attacks w/ Spellcasting+MAG [attack] vs. REA+INT [defense], damage = spell force + net hits, then soaked by BOD+Armor [modified by AP based on spell force].

[Xenon]

Example #1:
Any problem with that?

No problem with that.

Example #2:
Any problem with that?

No problem with that.
Note that the player is now at 0 initiative score and can not take any more interrupt actions during this IP. After the IP is over the player will be at -10 initiative score and can not take any more interrupt actions during the next IP either. You must have enough initiative score to pay for the interrupt.

...the way the passage on initiative is written, it sounds like you can always defend yourself, even with a negative initiative.

Yes, you get to roll a standard defense test when attacked even if you are out of initiative score.
(reaction+intuition, willpower+firewall, willpower+logic etc depending on what you were attacked with)

No, you are not allowed to take an interrupt action if you are out of initiative score.

So you think someone could just continue to defend herself until they run out of defense pool (which they will eventually due to the -1 penalty per previous attack)? And none of that negative initiative carries over to the next initiative pass/combat turn?

Yes, he can declare a standard defense test against attacks and take -1 dice pool penalty per attack he defend against until he run out of defense pool or he get to act again in his next action phase.

No, he can not continue to use interrupt actions once he run out of initiative score.

But if that same character had a 10 initiative score and already acted, it seems like the rules support taking two active defenses (say a pair of Parries) and then continued defenses way into the negative initiatives with no penalties in the next CT.

You don't get negative initiative score for taking a standard defense test. Only for interrupt actions. You can not take interrupt actions unless you have enough initiative score left to pay for them.

I would think there was a sort of limit meant to be there, hence the subtracting of 5 initiative each time, but that part you quoted really seems to go against that.  I suppose the -1 per previous attack is a way to limit that, so it won't go to infinity.

There is.

Once you reach 9 initiative score or less you can no longer take an interrupt action that cost 10 initiative score (such as full defense or full matrix defense). Once you reach 4 initiative score or less you can no longer take an interrupt action that cost 5 initiative score (such as missile parry, counter spelling, block, dodge, hit the dirt or intercept).

...The next line of the Interrupt Action section even implies that initiative can willingly be dropped below 0, although they may be referring to jumping from VR to meat or other initiative changing actions.

Initiative score is not reduced by 10 after your action phase. Your initiative score is only reduced at the end of the initiative pass when everyone have acted. So if you have for example 13 initiative score in a an action phase you can take one interrupt action (unless you are surprised) which will instantly bring down your initiative score to 8. Then you take your action (a complex action or two simple actions) - this does not affect your initiative score until the end of the initiative pass - you still have an initiative score of 8; so you can still take one more interrupt action if you like (in case someone is slower than you in the same initiative pass). After the initiative pass is over everyone get -10 initiative score and you end up at -3 score.

This is the negative score they are talking about in the pass you just read.

[JackVII]

I would point out that this oddly worded section:

A character with an Initiative Score of 0 or less can only take one Free Action during an Initiative Pass. However, a character with 0 or less Initiative is allowed one Free Action. She can also respond to attacks by dodging or defending herself.

Does specifically say that they can dodge, which is an interrupt action, but I am willing to view this use of the word "dodge" in a generic sense rather than the interrupt action.

[Xenon]

ahh. Now i see what you mean.

No.

When they wrote that they did not mean "full defense, full matrix defense, missile parry, counter spelling, block, dodge, hit the dirt or intercept".

When they wrote that they just meant "a defense test".

I really hate that they "try" to make for a better or more fun reading and just ending up causing confusion. Would be so much better if they used the exact same term every single time......


Interrupt actions clearly state you need to have enough initiative score to pay for the interrupt action during this combat turn or else you are not allowed to take the interrupt action this combat turn.

Since you don't pay for initiative at your action phase, but after the initiative pass, you might very well end up at negative initiative score after the IP is over.

[Djinnocide]

Let's say I've got a Decker on a team who is attempting to hack a metal detector at the entrance of a McHugh's. The Metal Detector has a device Rating of 3 and my Decker wants to use Hack on The Fly to get a Mark on the Metal Detector before moving onto other Matrix Actions. Per the rules for HoTF, He rolls his Hacking + Logic [Sleaze] vs the Metal Detector's Intuition + Firewall. How would I determine what the Metal Detector's Intuition + Firewall would be? If it's assumed the Metal Detector is somehow being defended by the McHugh's Host, how do you determine things like Intuition, Firewall, Willpower, etc., for a Device/Host?

[JackVII]

Use the Device Rating for the Mental Attribute if the device is unattended. The book uses a door lock as an example. If the metal detector isn't being monitored, I'd probably treat it the same way. If there was someone there actively operating the machine, I'd use their Mental Attribute, if higher.

If the device is slaved to a host in a WAN, use the host's Firewall, otherwise use the Device Rating again.

[mercaptan]

What kind of action (free, simple, complex, etc) is it to recall a sprite that's on stand-by?

[Aaron]

In the first Initiative Pass, the enemy attacks at with a melee weapon on Initiative 10.  He is attacking a player that previously went on Initiative 17 (so the player has already acted).  Instead of taking his free defense, he chooses to Parry with his katana, thus dropping in Initiative score to 12.  At the end of the combat turn, I subtract 10 from all initiatives and the only one able to attack is the player (now at 2).

Any problem with that?

Nope.

Example #2:

A player attacks at Initiative 10 and kills one guy, but now has to deal with two gangers coming at him with knives (one on Initiative 7 and the other at Initiative 3).  The player does a Parry against the first ganger attack (on 7), dropping his Initiative to 5.  The player does a second parry against the second ganger attack (on 3), dropping his Initiative to 0.

Any problem with that?

Nope.

One of my players is a physical adept, and he's looking to initiate for the first time.  I know, I wanted to make him a cake or something.  Anyway, the 5th edition rules state that a character must roll Arcana + Intuition in order to successfully initiate.  Problem is, most adepts that I've played with don't even have Arcana.  I can easily house rule this whole thing, but I'm curious about if there has been any consensus on a method to allow adepts to initiate more easily.

Not in the core rule book, but there might be something in a future source book.

So you think someone could just continue to defend herself until they run out of defense pool (which they will eventually due to the -1 penalty per previous attack)? And none of that negative initiative carries over to the next initiative pass/combat turn?

They can keep making defense tests, yes, but they can't use further Interrupt Actions to augment that dice pool unless they have the Initiative Score to pay for it. That's the difference between someone with an Initiative Score of 10 and someone with a 2.

Another quickie: Do drones/vehicles suffer from the double recoil penalty for any uncompensated recoil or is that just for metahumans using heavy weapons?

Yep.

[Aaron]

What kind of action (free, simple, complex, etc) is it to recall a sprite that's on stand-by?

Simple, if I recall correctly.

[Djinnocide]

Let's say my Decker wants to turn a wirelessly connected device off. Simply power it down. He does not want to Reboot the device or Format it. What Matrix action does he need to use and how many Marks on the device does he need to just turn something off?

[deek]

So, the troll at my table moves into melee combat with his katana (Reach 3 when all is tallied). He attacks Mook 1 with a gun, so should I consider Mook 1 "in melee combat" when his initiative comes up?

How about Mook 2 that is standing next to Mook 1? I wouldn't think Mook 2 is "in melee combat" since the troll didn't attack him, but based on the troll's reach and SR5 intercept rules, it seems like he could be Intercepted by the troll if he tries to move out of the troll's reach, right?

So, is Mook 2's option limited to (1) staying where he is and firing at the troll (and risking hitting his buddy if the troll rolls more successes on his defense test), (2) staying where he is and firing on another target, (3) move away from the troll and risk an Intercept or (4) gang up on the troll with Mook 1 in melee?

Is that the intention of SR5 melee? Reach is going to potentially lock down several targets from moving (or risk Intercept).

[Crunch]

Yep. It's one of the subtle buffs to melee in this edition. Reach and Intercept is a deadly combo.

[Aaron]

Let's say my Decker wants to turn a wirelessly connected device off. Simply power it down. He does not want to Reboot the device or Format it. What Matrix action does he need to use and how many Marks on the device does he need to just turn something off?

He uses Reboot Device and sets the delay for a year. Sounds flippant, I know, but that's how it's done.