[All4BigGuns]

No, its called commerce.  Capitalism.  Finances.  Its how you get anything.

Has no bearing on game. I could give my opinion of Capitalism, but political discussions are not permitted.

They actually should.  They should lose out on starting with a team that's used to working together.  They should lose out on being perfectly equipped to work with each other.

So, because someone doesn't hold to your idea of a "proper game", they should have to deal with not having characters function properly? Bull drek.

I'm arguing that I don't see a compelling reason to change the existing pricing table. Your counterpoint is "but I want a helicopter! No not that helicopter! No I want it and that Cyberwear. No the helicopter, the cyberwear and a Truck." It's not very convincing. Talk to your GM and see if he'll house rule you some options, but its not cause for a change to the rules. 

No one is saying to change the prices, merely to bring character generation resources back up to acceptable levels. The prices went up to be rather close to what they were in SR3, so the generation resources should go back to what they were in SR3.

[Michael Chandra]

Hey guys, who is interested in trying an AABCC/MundaneAAAB Prime Runner campaign with resources doubled for a short high-powered online campaign? Or helping me put together some characters for it so I can have a nice oneshot?

[faket15]

Let's see the previous editions core books.

SR2 - The Ares Dragon costs 600k, Priority A gives 1 million, which means you can have the aircraft you want.

SR3 - The cost is 590k and maximum money is 1 million, but the availability rules make aircraft unavailable at chargen.

SR4 - The maximum starting money is 250k, you can't start with the Ares Dragon (495k) but the Hughes Stallion is available for 225k (You can have it, but you can't have the helicopter and a Van)

SR5 - Maximum starting money of 470k (Resources A + 10 karma). Ares Dragon + Bulldog Van + Control Rig 1 + Rigger Adaptation for the helicopter and the van costs 435k. You have 35k remaining, which is enough for 1 good Fake SIN (+ licenses), 1 month of your choosen lifestyle, a good commlink, a low level RCC and some armor/guns. If you want more money, make the control Rig used and get 10750 extra.


In fact SR5 is the first edition in a long time that makes the concept you want feasible. Of course you will need to compromise, but I don't see it as a bad thing. It only means you have more room to improve.

[Maddoux1]

Has no bearing on game. I could give my opinion of Capitalism, but political discussions are not permitted.

I think capitalism has plenty to do with Shadowrun.  Your, unspoken, opinion on capitalism likely does explain where your thoughts here are coming from.  Regardless, Capitalism has a huge impact on the game world, and the system in which it operates.

So, because someone doesn't hold to your idea of a "proper game", they should have to deal with not having characters function properly? Bull drek.

Regardless of equipment, your character functions properly.  To me, what makes the character is the story and the skills.  I'm getting the idea that your idea on what the character is exists only in his equipment.

No one is saying to change the prices, merely to bring character generation resources back up to acceptable levels. The prices went up to be rather close to what they were in SR3, so the generation resources should go back to what they were in SR3.

And we are trying to avoid a conversation on economics.  If you get more money, the prices have essentially gone down.  By trying to change one, you're essentially trying to change the other.

Hey guys, who is interested in trying an AABCC/MundaneAAAB Prime Runner campaign with resources doubled for a short high-powered online campaign? Or helping me put together some characters for it so I can have a nice oneshot?

You can count me in, I'd love to.

[All4BigGuns]

Regardless of equipment, your character functions properly.  To me, what makes the character is the story and the skills.  I'm getting the idea that your idea on what the character is exists only in his equipment.

If, when creating a character, you have to change anything from what you envision--including gear--the entire character has changed to something different.

[Crunch]

Regardless of equipment, your character functions properly.  To me, what makes the character is the story and the skills.  I'm getting the idea that your idea on what the character is exists only in his equipment.

If, when creating a character, you have to change anything from what you envision--including gear--the entire character has changed to something different.

So why are you allowed to envision an Ares but the guy who wants to play a t-bird pilot has to to change his.

There's a line. You accept that. You're annoyed because you want a combination of things that all together are on the other side of the line.

[Maddoux1]

If, when creating a character, you have to change anything from what you envision--including gear--the entire character has changed to something different.

So if somebody steals our character's car, he's changed your character?  If a ganger puts a pullet through one of your shirts, he's changed your character?

[Crunch]

If, when creating a character, you have to change anything from what you envision--including gear--the entire character has changed to something different.

So if somebody steals our character's car, he's changed your character?  If a ganger puts a pullet through one of your shirts, he's changed your character?

PLEASE don't get guns started on how the GM isn't allowed to shoot at the riggers van AGAIN.

[Maddoux1]

Wait... is that actually a thing for him?  I'm not really surprised.  A little disappointed, but not surprised.

[All4BigGuns]

If, when creating a character, you have to change anything from what you envision--including gear--the entire character has changed to something different.

So if somebody steals our character's car, he's changed your character?  If a ganger puts a pullet through one of your shirts, he's changed your character?

I'll assume you didn't notice (rather than ignored) the "when creating a character" part.

When you're building a character and you take an Ares Predator for their firearm of choice, the character likely got that gun because of a preference for it. If you then change and take a Colt Government instead, you have changed the character.

Wait... is that actually a thing for him?  I'm not really surprised.  A little disappointed, but not surprised.

No, it wasn't. They intentionally misconstrued some posts. They took advice to act with caution and try to avoid shutting down a character's effectiveness completely (basically the equivalent of "don't put an entire party of wizards on a continent that is all Dead Magic zones") and twisted it into "you're not allowed to shoot it at all". That just proves to me that he knows I have a point, and he wants to try to discredit it with bull-drek.

[ZeConster]

Actually, with Aaron's suggested pricing range for repairing vehicles and drones being x4 to x10 compared to 4th edition depending on the vehicle, vehicles getting damaged is a bigger issue now than in 4th.

[Maddoux1]

I'll assume you didn't notice (rather than ignored) the "when creating a character" part.

Thank you, I did just overlook it.

When you're building a character and you take an Ares Predator for their firearm of choice, the character likely got that gun because of a preference for it. If you then change and take a Colt Government instead, you have changed the character.

I'm still not seeing that as a change to the character..

No, it wasn't. They intentionally misconstrued some posts. They took advice to act with caution and try to avoid shutting down a character's effectiveness completely (basically the equivalent of "don't put an entire party of wizards on a continent that is all Dead Magic zones") and twisted it into "you're not allowed to shoot it at all". That just proves to me that he knows I have a point, and he wants to try to discredit it with bull-drek.

Now that just sounds fun.  I've shot mages with arrows that had been enchanted with "Anti-Magic Fields" dipped in sovereign glue.  (As a player, and as a GM.)  It entirely depends on how its done for it to matter.  I've got no problem with my rigger being shut down in circumstances where it makes sense.  (My rigger can't control drones in water, and my group is in a coastal city.  Most of our jobs require going out to the sea.)

Just as the GM has to be flexible for what the Runners bring to the table, you have to be flexible as well.  Really, All4BigGuns, you've turned down every option that was provided, making you seem the least flexible person here.

[All4BigGuns]

I lose a lot of flexibility when attacked like certain individuals have been doing.

[Maddoux1]

I've seen more attacks on your fanatical holding to the idea as opposed to attacks upon you, but I can understand that.

[All4BigGuns]

I've seen more attacks on your fanatical holding to the idea as opposed to attacks upon you, but I can understand that.

Calling someone a three-year-old and accusing someone of wanting the ridiculous (when what was stated was nowhere near that) qualifies as an attack upon the person, I would think.