[Blackacid]

shortened down from the original post, what do some GMs do when using RFID tags, astral signatures and IDs in their games. i would just like to know how other gms may use this in regards to any repercussions from PC actions

[GiraffeShaman]

shortened down from the original post, what do some GMs do when using RFID tags, astral signatures and IDs in their games. i would just like to know how other gms may use this in regards to any repercussions from PC actions

Stealth RFID tags are great to put on something that might be stolen. Most especially high value employees. One trick is to implant them surgically, which can cause really big complications to an extraction.

I put astral signatures into the same category as DNA evidence and various possible cameras that caught the PCs image and recorded it into a server somewhere. They're things I might pull out to complicate matters or if a crime was major or very loudly done. However, I'm careful not to use them every time or even a majority of the time. It's easier bookkeeping and it also speeds up gameplay if you don't make your PCs hideously paranoid. (Shoot for somewhat paranoid rather than hideously paranoid, depending on group tastes of course)

Somewhat similar with ID checks. I make ID checks for major purchases, like a foci. I might make one at a major checkpoint on a Shadowrun. Most of them time I will not. Once again to keep things running smoothly. It's a complication I might use as a tool to spice things up. I just will not use it every opportunity to screw them, just like anything else.

Too little use of these various tricks can lead to a dull game where players feel they are in God Mode on a video game. Too much use of these tricks and players will think of you as something like a Killer GM. (Someone out to screw them at every opportunity and with the power to do so)

Also on the subject of IDs. I'm nice and give all players a level 3 ID for free at Chargen. And I don't make ID checks for most regular purchases if they make the purchase with at least a level 2 ID. So, if they don't get that original ID burned, I don't make checks much of the time, unless they are buying something like weapons or foci, anything that might be used to kill citizens.

[jamesfirecat]

shortened down from the original post, what do some GMs do when using RFID tags, astral signatures and IDs in their games. i would just like to know how other gms may use this in regards to any repercussions from PC actions

Stealth RFID tags are great to put on something that might be stolen. Most especially high value employees. One trick is to implant them surgically, which can cause really big complications to an extraction.

I put astral signatures into the same category as DNA evidence and various possible cameras that caught the PCs image and recorded it into a server somewhere. They're things I might pull out to complicate matters or if a crime was major or very loudly done. However, I'm careful not to use them every time or even a majority of the time. It's easier bookkeeping and it also speeds up gameplay if you don't make your PCs hideously paranoid. (Shoot for somewhat paranoid rather than hideously paranoid, depending on group tastes of course)

Somewhat similar with ID checks. I make ID checks for major purchases, like a foci. I might make one at a major checkpoint on a Shadowrun. Most of them time I will not. Once again to keep things running smoothly. It's a complication I might use as a tool to spice things up. I just will not use it every opportunity to screw them, just like anything else.

Too little use of these various tricks can lead to a dull game where players feel they are in God Mode on a video game. Too much use of these tricks and players will think of you as something like a Killer GM. (Someone out to screw them at every opportunity and with the power to do so)

Also on the subject of IDs. I'm nice and give all players a level 3 ID for free at Chargen. And I don't make ID checks for most regular purchases if they make the purchase with at least a level 2 ID. So, if they don't get that original ID burned, I don't make checks much of the time, unless they are buying something like weapons or foci, anything that might be used to kill citizens.

I would not put astral signals in the same category as DNA evidence, because I am fairly certain you can not create a database for astral signals /one Mage can not explain to another what your astral signal looks like.

The downside is once someone knows your astral signal there is NOTHING you can do to change it which can make shaking a particular Mage/spirit trying to track you down a real pain in the ass

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[All4BigGuns]

Flexible Signature meta-magic ability. Page 325 in SR5.

[GiraffeShaman]

I would not put astral signals in the same category as DNA evidence, because I am fairly certain you can not create a database for astral signals /one Mage can not explain to another what your astral signal looks like.

Perhaps I was not clear enough. By putting it in "That same category", I meant it's one of the tricks a GM can use to screw with players if they aren't careful during their crime sprees. And it should be used with caution, since not all players will find obsessing over forensic details and clean up fun. It's the far deep end of the Black Trenchcoat spectrum, the opposite of PInk Mohawk.

[SoulGambit]

With Astral / Resonance signature, I feel like the best use of that is after letting them know a specific Mage or Technomancer is after them, or that some organization has a magic / resonance task force after them. It probably shouldn't be something worried about normally.

[Blackacid]

Alright guys,

appreciate your responses as I've never played shadowrun except through video games and now I'm reading the novels.

hopefully when i eventually run a game i'll have more of a clue.

cheers

Cuv

[phydaux42]

Depending on the area of town Lone Star will cruse up and down the street with a hand held scanner looking for cyberware, weapons, and checking SINs. 

No commlink, or commlink turned off, is probable cause for a stop & patdown.

No SIN entered into your commlink is probable cause for a stop & patdown.

Criminal SIN is probable cause for a stop & interview.

Weapons or cyberware with no permits entered in your commlink is cause for arrest (remember, the default setting for 'ware & weapons is to announce their presence wirelessly).

Want or warrant is cause for arrest.

[Crunch]

That "depending on the part of town" thing is huge though. In City Center, the Corporate Zone or a ritzy inurb? Yep Lonestar is cruising and a shoulder holstered Light Pistol may get you arrested.

In the Redmond Barrens you may not see a cop for a month of Sundays.

Remember that in SR policing is a for profit business and KE or Lone Star don't make money keeping the poor safe.

[phydaux42]

Yes.  in my game the corporate district and all adjacent districts get patrolled.  Other districts get response.  Except Orctown & the Barrens.  Only Doc Wagon does there, and only for Gold Club members.

[jamesfirecat]

Depending on the area of town Lone Star will cruse up and down the street with a hand held scanner looking for cyberware, weapons, and checking SINs. 

No commlink, or commlink turned off, is probable cause for a stop & patdown.

No SIN entered into your commlink is probable cause for a stop & patdown.

Criminal SIN is probable cause for a stop & interview.

Weapons or cyberware with no permits entered in your commlink is cause for arrest (remember, the default setting for 'ware & weapons is to announce their presence wirelessly).

Want or warrant is cause for arrest.

Honestly this seems too harsh/stupid on the part of the cops for me.  Remember cops are in the business of being cops to get paid just as much as runners run to get paid, and safety in numbers is very important for both sides.  If you traveling a good sized group 4-6 you are much less likely to draw attention from some random police car crushing about.

Yes the police have more than enough resources to crush your running team like bugs, but any given police car full of cops is going to get face rolled by any given team of runners (and that isn't something you laugh off anymore given how S&S and Stunbolt/Stunball are going to be lot less prevalent in 5th edition) if they try to give them grief over their gear and the cops should know it just as well as the runners do and act like rational self interested beings.


In short, When it comes to cops "it never rains but it pours" should be your rule of thumb.  Any squad car on patrol is going to find some way to conveniently look the  other way (or simply follow and call for back up without engaging) if they're out on their own and spot a team of runners who are not actively committing crimes no matter how blatant they may be about the fact that they're runners since the alternative is them getting shot to pieces so their back up can have a chance at the glory of taking down some wanted criminals.

Cops should play the safety in numbers/armored vehicles game since it plays to their strengths (more resources as a group both manpower and equipment) and show up in job lots when appropriate but not waste their time/effort on a paperwork wasn't in order related bust that is very likely to go bad.

[Crunch]

A lot of that depends on area and available backup. A cop in a high security area where he has a HRT team less than 5 minutes away, another car or two in the area, a handful of Strato 9 drones in the area on overwatch and a police Astral backup mage within a combat turn of responding to a backup call is not going to worry as much about a second car being on site.

Sure the cop in the marginal area near the Barrens is looking the other way, but the cop in City Center probably has enough resources available (and enough fear of being assigned to the Barrens beat) to be pretty aggressive.

Another note is where are the runners and what are they doing. A Lone Star cop who spots you loitering around a corp facility that has a Lone Star Corp Sec contract is going to be more aggressive. A Knight Errant Cop who spots you running away from an Ares facility even more so. Conversely a Knight Errant cop who spots you running away from a bunch of Aztechnology corporate goons on UCAS soil is unlikely to help them, and might even ask to see their papers.

[jamesfirecat]

A lot of that depends on area and available backup. A cop in a high security area where he has a HRT team less than 5 minutes away, another car or two in the area, a handful of Strato 9 drones in the area on overwatch and a police Astral backup mage within a combat turn of responding to a backup call is not going to worry as much about a second car being on site.

Sure the cop in the marginal area near the Barrens is looking the other way, but the cop in City Center probably has enough resources available (and enough fear of being assigned to the Barrens beat) to be pretty aggressive.

Another note is where are the runners and what are they doing. A Lone Star cop who spots you loitering around a corp facility that has a Lone Star Corp Sec contract is going to be more aggressive. A Knight Errant Cop who spots you running away from an Ares facility even more so. Conversely a Knight Errant cop who spots you running away from a bunch of Aztechnology corporate goons on UCAS soil is unlikely to help them, and might even ask to see their papers.

That sounds about right to me.  Basically I do not imagine runners drawing "stop and frisk" style attention unless they are casing a place or the cops have a lot of backup ready to bail them out if things turn ugly.  Obviously they do have to try and stop you if you're committing a crime (on territory where the cops have jurisdiction) but I do not imagine a single patrol car full of cops with no backup nearby within ten minutes time would be foolish enough to ask a troll with some friends along with him if he has a liscence for that Panther Assault  Cannon that he's just passing through their patrol area with.

[Crunch]

I think that's accurate in low sec areas. In a mid or higher security area I suspect that anyone the cops are afraid to frisk will get backup called as a matter of course. Remember that Lone Star and KE want to look like their doing a good job.

Anyone toting around a Panther, especially if they're a troll, is going to get backup (probably an HRT with magical and drone overwatch) called anywhere outside of the barrens. Now, in a C type area they may not stop and frisk you if you look tough, but not over the top.

[Reaver]

ok Blackacid.

to make it easy on yourself and your players, I recommend you ignore it all for the time being. Don't worry about astral signatures, or SIN tracking, or RFIDs or whatever. Just concentrate on the core mechanics of the game. Once you have those down, do you research on RFID tags, how they work, how they foil a run, and how runners defeat them. Then introduce them to you characters.... under the guise that "your characters have been aware of this from the beginning and were doing everything they could to remove <insert signature/item here> automatically" and let them know that you are now bringing them into the game..... (I gave out free tag erasers at this point.) then move on to the next item... and so on.

Done in baby steps its easier for everyone to work their heads around.