[shinryu]

ahoy, peons! i have returned from dumpshock with knowledge and insight. anoint me with fragrant oils and bring me bitches, that i might deliver wisdom unto you.

so it looks like, strictly speaking, object resistance doesn't mean shit for preparations. you just roll vs. the force of the spell, so some of y'all been doing it wrong. reading is fundamental, and i failed that too. but this is wondrous news, for it heralds the coming of the stick and shock and spell round. follow these steps for win.

1) thou enchantest the stick and shock projectile  with thine powerful magic; the projectile is but an anchor for thy potence, so its object resistance troubleth thee not. thou may useth the contact or the command trigger, depending on the errata.

2) thou hand-loadeth that shit in a ruger super warhawk case. haveth thine metal golem do this for you if contact troubleth your soul. sniper rifles maketh a good choice here too.

3) smite thine foe in his crotch with the sanctified SSS round.

since the stick and shock is intended to deploy itself and stick to the target, i hardly see how its deployment counts as destroying the lynchpin in any meaningful sense. the capacitors don't explode, things are all still connected, and arguably you've enchanted the capacitor case anyway. this is the beauty of the SSS round. effects from here on depend largely on how the final rules for triggers sort:

contact trigger: well, either you just need to hit them or you just need to hit skin, depends on the final ruling of course. stun damage, plus spell effect. i recommend punch, myself.

command trigger: if you can set the spell off in the same pass, as any sane system should allow you to do, beautiful. if not, you have two options:

1) they better peel that thing off before your next pass, else it's spell time. hell, with the right spell it might not even matter if they don't run away far enough. far enough being line of sight, of course.

2) give it to a drone or a sniper. they shoot, they hit, stun damage, you set off the spell simultaneously, spell effect. beautiful anti-spirit attack, among other things.

2b) well, they missed. son of a bitch. set off the spell anyway if it isn't touch-ranged.

you can thank me later, gunslinger alchemists. stylish hardcore action awaits.

also, narcoject rounds and super squirt gels seem like legal options. just a thought.

[Michael Chandra]

Firing the bullet causes the barrel to put scratches on the outside of the bullet, destroying the lynchpin. And if you want to enchant the capacitor case, good luck explaining how you're doing that without using the delivery system as part of the lynchpin. And no, saying "I just do it like that" ain't gonna work.

If you want to set off the command spell when you fire it yourself, we're not talking about whether or not the system is sane, we're talking about whether you are willing to follow the rules or simply bend them to your will. And if you don't want to follow the rules in the first place, stop telling us how they're supposed to be.

And OF COURSE you can let someone else throw a lynchpinned projectile and then trigger it during your own phase. That simply means you can't do another attack during your own phase.

[ZeConster]

Huh... I just read the Alchemy rules for the first time, and it looks like you're right:

For most magic, high-tech items are a concern because of Object Resistance, but such items can become preparations because the object itself is not being enchanted, it’s just acting as an anchor for the alchemical spell.

Makes me wonder why no one else noticed that the first time they read it. Of course, since your limit is still the Force, and the preparation gets (Force) dice, it'll still be weaker and cause more Drain than a regular spell.

Of course, if you carve or draw something on the bullet for the preparation, it's entirely possible those will get damaged while the bullet's flying out of the barrel, because each firearm leaves markings on the bullets that fly out of it, regardless of the type of bullet - and I'm pretty sure a bird hieroglyph might not work as well if the barrel decapitates it. Of course, you might be able to pull it off if you're in a Christian-based tradition: just carve a pentagram into the tip, and you'll be zapping demons before you know it, assuming the bullet doesn't strike anything hard and gets crushed by it.
With arrows, there's a lot more won't-get-damaged stuff you can use for the preparation, so those are more suitable.

[FastJack]

A post has been removed and action taken against the poster for repeatedly breaking the Terms of Service regarding personal attacks and using constructive criticism only.

Also, this thread will remain open if developers wish to answer the question put forth, regardless of the tone and language used to ask those questions.

[Mäx]

Firing the bullet causes the barrel to put scratches on the outside of the bullet, destroying the lynchpin

Thats not actually anywhere in the rules and even if it gets added in, you can just make your own APDS rounds enchanting the penetrator before encasing it on the sabot

[Michael Chandra]

Correct, but that requires you get the equipment needed, figure out (read: explain to the GM) how to put a lynchpin in such a small object in a way that it doesn't get damaged when it gets encased and doesn't damage the bullet itself, figure out why the impact on the armor doesn't damage the penetrator and destroy the lynchpin, and prepare fresh bullets all the time. Not to mention you need all the ingredients of a bullet, not just a bullet, and that won't be easy and cheap to get. And need to explain how you manage not to trigger the touch-spell when putting the bullet together.

And no, lynchpin destruction has been confirmed as being in the errata-to-be, so it IS in the rules, just not in an official document yet. That likely means the rules then fully leave it to the GM to determine whether the lynchpin would get damaged on a certain action.

[ZeConster]

Firing the bullet causes the barrel to put scratches on the outside of the bullet, destroying the lynchpin

Thats not actually anywhere in the rules

There isn't really anything about lynchpins other than "small enough to lift, handle, and manipulate", "no aura", "add a creative touch", and 4 examples. Heck, based on the fluff, it seems "dead beings" are perfectly acceptable as lynchpins, so you can easily play a disturbed Magician who uses rat corpses as lynchpins for Command preparations - after all, a dead rat is hardly suspicious in most places.

[Mäx]

Correct, but that requires you get the equipment needed, figure out (read: explain to the GM) how to put a lynchpin in such a small object in a way that it doesn't get damaged when it gets encased and doesn't damage the bullet itself.

Well if size becomes issue, you can just change to using shotgun

[Unahim]

What counts as damaged, though? If you fold paper, the fold is pretty much there permanently. It'll never go back to being its unfolded state, no matter what you try. So if you make paper charms and a corner gets folded... is it ruined? Because by the definition of damaged, an irreparable change like that should qualify. I know that if I ordered some paper charms online and they came in all folded, I'd probably call up the company and demand my money back because they were damaged.

[Michael Chandra]

Sounds fair to me. Those are really cheap and easy to make, after all, so it's no more than fair that you still have to take some precautions to make sure they don't get damaged and lose the lynchpin.

[Dracain]

While it seems there is no official ruling (yet) on what constitutes a damaged lynchpin (though I wouldn't consider something damaged until it at taken damage on its CM), I do hope this gets OKed.  I like the idea of magical bullets, it seems very much like something that would be fun, and fit in with Shadowrun. 

Also, it doesn't matter if this is OK or not...That OP was awesome. 

[Michael Chandra]

The lynchpin, not the object, has to remain undamaged. If you etched a drawing into an object and the drawing then gets scratched, that'd count as damaged.

I disagree with enchanting normal ammunition because the barrel would scratch it and it's damn tiny to begin with, and the contact trigger proves to a serious problem when it comes to other kinds of ammunition. Since you throw knives and grenades, Contact is out of the question with those. Command is an option, as long as the player accepts they can't both fire and trigger one in the same Action Phase. With a throwing knive, well how many opponents would bother pulling that out in the middle of combat?

[DigitalZombie]

If a simple scratch would be enough to damage the preparation, I see no point in disjoining [page 307] wouldnt the player that rolled disenchanting+magic versus force+alchemists magic and afterwards suffers potentially stun or even physical drain, and maybe even the effects of the contact trigger if he failed, feel a bit cheated when the logic 1 troll just goes \ Ima gonna poke it wif a stick! = the thin drawing in dried blood got damaged= disenchanted?

Im not sure here but is the argument against enchanted bullets a logical (as in the logical thing would be for it to get damaged) or is it really a balancing thing (as in, no that ares predator cant deal bullet damage and then flamethrower damage) Because at some point there will be enough sourcebooks out there to make a handgrenade chucking\ knifethrowing\sword wielding\titanium crossbow shooting combat drone feasible. And then some of those logical arguments wont be enough.

I suggested in an earlier thread to use crossbows with enchanted bolts (and got threatened with physical violence )but Im still not sure if that was because it wasnt logical or if it was because that crossbow was gamebreaking.

[Mara]

Interestingly,  arrowheads, especilly broadheads, are actually alot more viable for contact preparations.
Enchant the Arrowhead, use tool to put it in a vice, use another tool to screw the end of the arrow into the
arrowhead, use shaft to put arrow in quiver. This actually makes the 3rd edition Shadowrun Companion
cover workable...

But, I am curious why it is believed that you can't activate a command triggered preparation? It is not an
attack in and of itself, and it the preparation making the roll, not the character. It is also pretty much part
of the same attack as throwing the knife/shooting the arrow, etc.

[Mirikon]

There are a lot of things I could say, but it all boils down to game balance, and the fact that the GM wins any arms race. In any system there are things that are rules-legal, but deserve extreme phonebooking if you do them, because that way lies madness. For example, in D&D 3.5, the cost to enchant an item with a continuous or use-activated spell effect is <spell level> x <Caster level> x 2000 gp. You can set the caster level at any point up to your actual CL. True Strike is a first level spell, and can be cast with a CL of 1. This spell gives +20 to your next attack roll. To make it continuous or use-activated (in other words, it would apply to all of your attack rolls) is 2000 gp. The same price as to make your masterwork sword a +1 Sword. Completely rules-legal. And any DM with two brain cells put together will beat you with your own dice bag if you try to do that.

The same thing applies here. Sure, it sounds cool to have an arrow with a contact preparation on it that goes off when you hit someone. Now picture the DM bringing out a troll bow mystic adept, with R10 bow and arrows, and Lightning Bolt, Fireball, or Death Touch preparations on them. Or how about a Mob Mind preparation. Look, you got shot, and now your whole team is under mind control. Instant TPK.

Whether it ultimately is clarified to be rules legal or not, anyone thinking it is a good idea clearly hasn't thought of the implications. Yes, there's the whole "But you can put poisons on arrows" argument, but I don't know of any poisons in the game that can mind control an entire team just from attacking one person. And anyone who has considered that, and still thinks it is a good idea, needs severe phonebooking.