[All4BigGuns]

He'd make a roll, count the successes, then roll the failures.

To break the limit, Edge must be used to add exploding dice, rerolling failures does not let you break the limit.

Ah, true. after they commit to not using pre-roll Edge, limits are solid, and the defense test can be rolled first.

Not quite. You can still add dice equal to your Edge rating after rolling.

[incrdbil]

How exactly are your defenders automatically beating their Accuracy Limit? The average gun has an accuracy between 4 and 7, which can easily be raised to 6 and 9 with a smartgun. I've personally never seen a player with an Accuracy lower than 6, and the majority of the sample grunts only have around 6 or 8 dice in their entire pool. Did he roll nothing but successes?

Plenty of weapons start with a base 4-6 Accuracy.

It easy to rack up a lot of defense successes, especially with a full defense option, or if the defender has a decent reaction/intuition--not to mention what happens if the defender uses edge.  Add in running modifiers, cover, its not hard to get a very healthy defense pool  when facing talented opposition.

I have noted the use of the dodge action does introduce a limit to a defense test, which is a reason I don't expect to see it used terribly much.

[incrdbil]

He'd make a roll, count the successes, then roll the failures.

To break the limit, Edge must be used to add exploding dice, rerolling failures does not let you break the limit.

Ah, true. after they commit to not using pre-roll Edge, limits are solid, and the defense test can be rolled first.

Not quite. You can still add dice equal to your Edge rating after rolling.

Correct, push the limit can happen after the roll, easy to forget because I've only had it come up twice so far.

Ok, to keep it solid, have the player state if they plan to use edge prior to roll. if so, have them roll then. Otherwise announce defense result if it exceeds the players accuracy/limit, giving the player the time to decide if he'll then use edge to roll and ignore limits, and thus roll dice, or simply not bother rolling.

[Crunch]

He can certainly opt to use edge at that point. (and this would be considered after roll edge, I don't reveal anything until the player has committed to not using edge prior to his chance to roll).  He'd make a roll, count the successes, then roll the failures.  No reason not to tell him that though, and save him the time rolling dice if he doesn't choose to use the edge.

He can decide to use edge to push the limit after he's seen his roll. In other words, by telling him not to roll you skipped the step where he gets to see his results before deciding to see if he wanted to push the limit.

[incrdbil]

He can certainly opt to use edge at that point. (and this would be considered after roll edge, I don't reveal anything until the player has committed to not using edge prior to his chance to roll).  He'd make a roll, count the successes, then roll the failures.  No reason not to tell him that though, and save him the time rolling dice if he doesn't choose to use the edge.

He can decide to use edge to push the limit after he's seen his roll. In other words, by telling him not to roll you skipped the step where he gets to see his results before deciding to see if he wanted to push the limit.

Well, he can still roll then do the final commit to use edge if he wants--I'm trying to stpeed things up as much as possible by reducing dice rolling or combining it.

But anyway, back to the main topic, I've got a back end of an adventure and big rolling fight to finish, correcting some other errors I've made from my carry over of 4th edition habits, then I'll poll the players about how they feel about limits and go over options.

[lazlo]

Well, he can still roll then do the final commit to use edge if he wants--I'm trying to stpeed things up as much as possible by reducing dice rolling or combining it.

But anyway, back to the main topic, I've got a back end of an adventure and big rolling fight to finish, correcting some other errors I've made from my carry over of 4th edition habits, then I'll poll the players about how they feel about limits and go over options.

It's your game and all, but I don't see how your way is faster than just having the two of you roll at the same time and count your successes.

Also, if I were a player and you tried to deprive me of the visceral fun of rolling my attack pool, I'd be pissed.  Your players may feel differently.

[incrdbil]

Well, he can still roll then do the final commit to use edge if he wants--I'm trying to stpeed things up as much as possible by reducing dice rolling or combining it.

But anyway, back to the main topic, I've got a back end of an adventure and big rolling fight to finish, correcting some other errors I've made from my carry over of 4th edition habits, then I'll poll the players about how they feel about limits and go over options.

It's your game and all, but I don't see how your way is faster than just having the two of you roll at the same time and count your successes.

Also, if I were a player and you tried to deprive me of the visceral fun of rolling my attack pool, I'd be pissed.  Your players may feel differently.

I'm not depriving him of the 'fun' of rolling a dice poll. It simply tells the player, in advance that they'll have to use edge to even have a chance to hit versus the targets defense test. If they are willing to risk it, then they get to roll.  if they don't wish to expend the edge, then they don't waste their time (or a great dice roll) on a test that cant possibly succeed.  Opposed tests take time, and limiting the dice rolling keeps the flow moving better. 

I'm streamlined my pregenerated roll sheets a bit now. I have columns that list the most typical dice pools I'll be rolling, then a list of success tests printed out from a random number generator.  Not having to make a lot of dice rolls enables me to speed up my responses and the game a lot, and avoids triggering player 'radar' by suddenly rolling dice in secret.