[Reaver]

Simple math terms
Essence must be greater 0 or >0 for the mathleets
0.000000000000000000000000000....01 is technically ok
=<0 your an NPC cyber zombie.

true.

But after some number crunching (4th edition) I think the LOWEST I could get to (through delta ware and cultured bioware) was .003 

which is far closer to "I am a talking computer, not a  human being" then most players can express



which lead to some interesting conversations in my game when the players decided to "free and teach" the cyberzombie, instead of blowing it to pieces like the Johnson wanted.

[Michael Chandra]

With Deltaware, Cultured and Compatibility I think you can perhaps work it out to 0.0005. I'd have to try to mess around to be sure.

[Reaver]

With Deltaware, Cultured and Compatibility I think you can perhaps work it out to 0.0005. I'd have to try to mess around to be sure.

hmmm don't think Compatibility was used last time (don't recall)....

fast way to do it, find the smallest piece of ware, apply bonuses, see where you end up...

[emeketos]

From a social perspective we have  used very low essence as a automatic disadvantage causing difficult social skills as the player is having more and more difficulty thinking in terms of the physical world. Sinking deeper into a disassociation of man and machine.  Long term this gives an effective time limit on character before they permanently into an NPC.

The other thing to consider is facing an essence draining creature could kill most low essence pcs with a single hit

[Xenon]

Low essence have a [slight] negative impact on your social limit.
Does not seem as if low essence in SR5 is as "bad" as it used to be in earlier editions.
(which is why 0 essence is more of a limit on how much augmentations you can install, not when you die).

[bigity]

Would assume 0 is death outside of a cyberzombie ritual as are all the later editions.

In 1st edition 0 essence was ok, less than zero was death.

[Slippery_Chicken]

Low essence have a [slight] negative impact on your social limit.
Does not seem as if low essence in SR5 is as "bad" as it used to be in earlier editions.
(which is why 0 essence is more of a limit on how much augmentations you can install, not when you die).

This is what I thought too. Why would you die from having too many augments?

Also, do people with cochlear implants, synthetic limbs, and pacemakers IRL suddenly become "less human" as a result?

[bigity]

It's a game balance mechanic, it's not getting into metaphysical stuff here

[RHat]

Low essence have a [slight] negative impact on your social limit.
Does not seem as if low essence in SR5 is as "bad" as it used to be in earlier editions.
(which is why 0 essence is more of a limit on how much augmentations you can install, not when you die).

This is what I thought too. Why would you die from having too many augments?

Also, do people with cochlear implants, synthetic limbs, and pacemakers IRL suddenly become "less human" as a result?

Those are NOT a feasible analogy.  Cochlear implants are less than a cyberear (0.2 Essence), modern prosthetics aren't remotely on the order of SR's cyberlimbs (no, not even the current most advanced prototypes), pacemakers are even less intensive than either of those...

First, your system can only take so much.  Each implant, to a degree dependent on the extent to which it must integrate with your body, places a certain degree of physiological stress on your body.  Second, there is a psychological effect in the world of SR that cause people with augmentations to FEEL less human, which then creates the reality of their behaviour.  Third, your "soul" or "life force" or whatever is a real thing in Shadowrun, and it is eaten away by 'ware, amongst other things - what the hell do you think happens when it's all gone?

While it's surprising that it isn't explicitly said, do note that every single case in the text dealing with an Essence score of 0 results in death - the kindest variant offering Body+Willpower days.  At a certain point, attempting to argue that being at 0 Essence doesn't kill you becomes munchkinism.

[All4BigGuns]

Those are NOT a feasible analogy.  Cochlear implants are less than a cyberear (0.2 Essence), modern prosthetics aren't remotely on the order of SR's cyberlimbs (no, not even the current most advanced prototypes), pacemakers are even less intensive than either of those...

Though, if a person knows you have the first two, there is a decently high chance that they won't be as comfortable around you.

While it's surprising that it isn't explicitly said, do note that every single case in the text dealing with an Essence score of 0 results in death - the kindest variant offering Body+Willpower days.  At a certain point, attempting to argue that being at 0 Essence doesn't kill you becomes munchkinism.

This is pretty much how I'm seeing the entire argument...

[Xenon]

Just kinda strange that there is not more negative effects of losing essence than a [slightly] lower social limit.

Lost 3 essence = -1 social limit
Lost 5.99 essence = -2 social limit
Lost 6 essence = certain death

I think they could have added some more drawbacks along the way.
There is no sense of "danger" when installing more augmentations.


For example the Weak immune system negative quality (SR5, p.87) state:
...A Weak Immune System often results from immune-suppression treatments used in cybersurgery and bio-genetic procedures, so it is reasonable to believe that characters that have undergone extensive body modifications are more likely to acquire this quality.
Maybe each lost point of essence could have a chance your immune system is weakened.

In previous editions there was a lot of fluff that loss of essence due to augmentations made you more and more machine than human (think social skills equal to a T-800 Terminator). Maybe social limit should be lowered by 1 point for each full point of essence spend on augmentations (with a minimum of social limit 1).


Stuff like that...... Shrug.

[RHat]

I think they could have added some more drawbacks along the way.
There is no sense of "danger" when installing more augmentations.

Cyberpsychosis was extended core in SR4, same will likely be true in SR5.

[Michael Chandra]

It also only really mattered at less than 1 Essence, no consequences above that. Now they added the Social Limit role to add a downside.

[Mirikon]

Also, don't forget that Essence comes into play whenever magical healing is being tossed around.

[mrcatman]

Just kinda strange that there is not more negative effects of losing essence than a [slightly] lower social limit.

Lost 3 essence = -1 social limit
Lost 5.99 essence = -2 social limit
Lost 6 essence = certain death

I think they could have added some more drawbacks along the way.
There is no sense of "danger" when installing more augmentations.

Lost 3 essence = -3 dice pool mod on health spells cast on you
Lost 5 essence = -5 dice pool mod on health spells cast on you

MHO, they already have a increased sense of danger/drawbacks as your ESS drops via the P.287-288 "low-essence" health spell thing. Harder to heal, cure disease, and buff with "increase" spells.

EDIT: Mirikon beat me to it.