[Koshnek]

I have a sniper rifle, but I assume my van will get it where I need it and my sneaking will do the rest. I figure 5 empty seats is enough capacity to hide a motorcycle too. Can my shop-van conceal my motorcycle? Or am I going about this in a very roundabout way? My rigging is secondary; I don't intend to move personnel or hostages except when necessary. She's kind of a self sustained character within the team.

I figure a shop would take up one seat, motorcycle 2?

[Noble Drake]

This is an area where Shadowrun has, historically, not really given proper attention.

From my real-life experiences in jobs that require trucks or vans full of tools or gear... I'd have to say that the vehicles listed in SR5 so far (a van that seats 6, for example) are not all that large - so its like a minivan, rather than a delivery van or "UPS truck" type vehicle.

That means if you want to keep a motorcycle inside it, you are losing out on all the rear seats... and if you are wanting to carry tools and a motorcycle, then you are in a position where space concerns would require you choose one or the other unless you settle for a tool kit rather than a shop-equivalent.

[Koshnek]

If one seat is equal to 250 kg of storage, how would five seats not be enough for a shop and a motorcycle? I'm talking about the mirage (a crotch rocket) which isn't going to be more than 250kg weight (google crotch rockets).That leaves four more seats of storage space for a shop. If a shop full of tools weigh 1000kg, I think it's time for a facility lol.

[The Bulldog] is a capacious...delivery van favored by...legitimate shipping and logistics companies.

If we're talking actual physical space, a motor cycle is very narrow, so the space concerns are mostly length. A tidy workspace should leave enough space for a motorcycle and your toolbox and spare parts. That's assuming you're not carrying a full car full of parts in your van. Am I wrong?

If there's a rule or text I missed that contradicts me (or a completely superior option altogether) please let me know. For example, what the hell do you do if you put a bunch of mounts on your shop-van? Buy a semi? Lol

[Noble Drake]

You didn't miss any text that directly contradicts you... of course, the text contradicts itself by saying in the description that the GMC bulldog is a delivery van (if it were, it wouldn't have any more than 2 seats - and if it were a passenger van of the same size as a typical delivery van it would have more than 6 seats).

...and the ruling that Shadowrun has had to measure how much stuff you can load into a vehicle in kilograms isn't a very reasonable way to determine cargo - it's oversimplified, and pretty ridiculous too - especially because each normal person-sized seat is worth about 3 normal sized people if removed, but only 1 if actually present.

My statements about what a van will hold are entirely based on the physical space necessary to store things in a useful way - racks and drawers for the tools, and enough space to easily maneuver the bike - and hinged upon the mechanical details mentioned (van that seats 6) as those, in my opinion, trump the description (delivery van).

Of course, it is worth noting that the truck which my father and I drove to work daily for years is absolutely impossible according to Shadowrun rules of any edition - it being a two-seater with numerous tool boxes built into the sides of the bed, loaded with tools, and both an air compressor and arc welder loaded into the bed - so really you should just go to your GM with a description (or even some pictures of a similar setup someone likely could find on the internet) for the vehicle you want and ask if it is cool.

[Agonar]

I usually play it by ear, and figure that each "seat" is for a geared runner, and not just a typical adult.  Sure, a minivan might fit a family of 7 comfortably.. or uncomfortably, but a Runner Team?  Lucky to get 3 + the driver in one of them.  I drive a minibus, and sure it has 20 seats (besides the driver), but I couldn't fit 20 Runners in there.

If you look at the Ares Roadmaster picture in SR4's Used Car Lot, and the seating guide in SR4a p.348, that thing can seat 10-14, yet in SR5 only 8. 

So I play it by ear, look at the Seats, look at the Body of the vehicle, and just go with what makes sense.  Figure a Troll takes up 2 "seats" but in a pinch, you can also throw someone extra in for a tight fit.  Look at most of the motorcycles.  1 Seat, but you could probably fit a passenger on most of those too.

[Mantis]

Actually you could total do a work truck in SR4. You would add the workshop mod for 1 slot and then the special machinery mod for a compressor and other mod like that for the arc welder. Pop all that into a bulldog, which is a 3 seater. Done.
SR5 will likely have similar rules for modifying vehicles in the Run and Gun book that is due out soon. Meanwhile, the Bulldog stepvan has always been the equivalent of the usual UPS delivery van. I don't know why they put 6 seats in it for 5th edition. A typo? I'd just ask the GM to ignore that seat entry and you should be able to easily stuff in a shop in the back. Not so sure a bike will fit as well. Guess that will depend on how generous your GM is feeling.

[Koshnek]

Also, seating isn't described as a physical seat (p461). It's how many PCs or weight you can fit. So a delivery van could hold 6 people with two seats, or it could hold two people with a shop and a motorcycle.

I'm actually envisioning a ups delivery truck right now. That's the smaller model, and without modification I have no doubt I could pull even a fat boy Harley in there without removing its two tiers of shelving. We'll say the shelving (which take up 2/3 the width of the truck) is the shop. Don't forget, you wouldn't be working inside an automotive shop van necessarily. There's no way to pull a car into your van or pull your van itself into the van for repairs.

I'm not trying to interpret the description to make the idea work. Objectively, I wouldn't expect more than two physical seats in a vehicle described verbatim as a capacious delivery van. I'm new to this pen and paper RPG system, but do you disagree? Or am I being overly realistic and interpreting too loosely?

Edit: Eh, the Gopher is a truck, but it can only seat 3 people. So seats might just be actual seats :p. On the contrary, I unloaded a skid of 15 parking bumpers last week from a pickup via forklift. That's around 1600 kg. Either way you would remove the extra seating if you set a van up to be a shop.

[Noble Drake]

Actually you could total do a work truck in SR4.

Oh wow, you are right about that... though actually SR4 seems to have gone the other sort of ridiculous on that point and made it so that the work truck I am thinking of - which in the real world was so burdened by the tools packed within that it was basically expected to be replaced due to wear and tear every 2 or 3 years - would only use up about half of its modification slots, rather than being simply too much weight for the chassis to support.

[Mantis]

Also, seating isn't described as a physical seat (p461). It's how many PCs or weight you can fit. So a delivery van could hold 6 people with two seats, or it could hold two people with a shop and a motorcycle.

I'm actually envisioning a ups delivery truck right now. That's the smaller model, and without modification I have no doubt I could pull even a fat boy Harley in there without removing its two tiers of shelving. We'll say the shelving (which take up 2/3 the width of the truck) is the shop. Don't forget, you wouldn't be working inside an automotive shop van necessarily. There's no way to pull a car into your van or pull your van itself into the van for repairs.

I'm not trying to interpret the description to make the idea work. Objectively, I wouldn't expect more than two physical seats in a vehicle described verbatim as a capacious delivery van. I'm new to this pen and paper RPG system, but do you disagree? Or am I being overly realistic and interpreting too loosely?

Edit: Eh, the Gopher is a truck, but it can only seat 3 people. So seats might just be actual seats :p. On the contrary, I unloaded a skid of 15 parking bumpers last week from a pickup via forklift. That's around 1600 kg. Either way you would remove the extra seating if you set a van up to be a shop.

Nah, I wouldn't say you are being too realistic. Like I pointed out, you could do exactly what you wanted with the 4th ed (and 3rd and 2nd for that matter) vehicle modification rules, and as Noble Drake notes, you can do it better in Shadowrun than you could in real life. The problem you are running into is that the rules for that level of modification aren't available for 5th edition yet. You just have to get your GM to wing it for now with the understanding that you will change things as needed when the specific rules become available. Or you could grab a copy of Arsenal and just modify those rules to work. And by modify, I mean just use them. There isn't that much difference between 4th and 5th ed vehicles.

[Koshnek]

Oh, you have to do something special to have a shop van? The section on tools say a shop can fit in the back of a van. I took that to mean you buy a shop and put the toolbox and such in your van and you're good. So I have to stick with facilities and kits?

My book is at home, so I can't quote any lines.

[martinchaen]

Just as an FYI; I recently had to tow my Triumph Daytona 675R, and the guy had a van like this.

The bike took up most of the space in the back because it was designed specifically to haul bikes; it had fasteners and tie-downs as well as a winch to get the bike in and out safely. Now, I agree that "seating capacity" is likely more of an indication of how much room a vehicle has, but even with 6 "seats" a GMC is going to be cramped.

Don't believe me? Take a look at this...,

To my mind; can you fit a tool shop and a motorcycle in the back of a GMC? Sure. But it's going to be cramped as hell and you're not going to be able to make any kind of quick getaway from the back of the truck; more than likely, going by how long it took the guy to get my bike into his van it'll be a 15 minute process, at least.

My 2 nuyen...

[Koshnek]

That's actually what I was imagining originally, room for everything but not much else. One two two seats remaining. Getting the bike in the van is mostly to get it around town covertly. Although not my goal, you could probably pop the straps, remote your van, jump onto and into the bike, and shoot out the back door if necessary. That could possibly cause damage, but it should be doable in a short amount of time.

[Mantis]

To compare for 4th ed., to add the vehicle mod of a workshop to your van, the cost is 10,000¥ versus the 5000¥ a shop costs. In 5th edition the cost of a shop is unchanged from 4th so just do the same. Double cost of a shop and call it finished. Simple.

[martinchaen]

I'd allow Mantis' suggestion. But I would not allow you to get out of there quickly in any way, shape, or form. The biggest problem is room; unless your character is a dwarf, there isn't enough space to physically get on the bike and race it out the back. It would, in my estimation, be at least 10 minutes of work to get the bike out the back of the van.

[Nico]

Getting it out should always be easier than getting it in. Of course properly securing it takes time and everything, but ten minutes just seems exaggerated. If you don't mind scratching your bike's paintjob or simply cutting the straps I could see you wrangle the bike out there in less than a minute. And if you are in enough trouble that you have to abandon the van, you might have to. Obviously a van a bit wider than the one shown would be required to allow for a more stable stance and more freedom of movement.