[JustADude]

Can always take an Otomo and have it punch its way out. Real Steel!

Yes, but it would be nice to have ones that don't cost ungodly amounts of nuyen. All the combat-capable anthromorphic or melee-capable drones currently are cyborg suits or milspec, with the exception of the TAN-DEM from MilSpecTech 2, which still isn't much good in melee.

Well, I was briefly thinking of writing up rules where you could make a Drone out of a full set of Cyberlimbs, plus Cybereyes, Cyberears, and an 'implanted' commlink to run a Pilot program (or host a resident AI).

It still costs a bit over 100K for the basic 4-limbs + Skull + Torso + Eyes + Ears package. Expensive, but still only 2/3rds the price of an Otomo, and you get way only having to take Restricted Gear once, for the Cyberskull. A nice GM might even let you take it once and let you get up to Availability 20 for everything on the Drone.

You also get way more Capacity to work with... especially since a Drone doesn't really have a Natural Maximum, so you don't have to waste Capacity on Enhancements.

[The_Gun_Nut]

The Medusas were kangaroo cat drones that were fast, armored, capable of jumping, had razor sharp claws, tails that could let them hang from things, and the ability to deal taser strikes by touching you. And then Deus built a powered-up version of them. If you can't see how that would be useful in a close-quarters situation, you're not thinking clearly, or you've become over-reliant on firearms. Melee weapons never run out of ammo, and they are quiet. In buildings or the jungle, they make for an excellent choice for stealth operations.

If you are worrying about running out of ammo, then you are not doing a shadowrun, you are occupying the building.

People are too impressed by melee combat ability.  Sure, it's useful when you run into the guy you didn't see just around the corner, but if you have a few dozen cyber/drone wasps in a cloud around your team, then you know where everything and everyone is in the immediate area.

Short answer, if something needs to hurt someone buy running up to them and touching them, that is tons of time wasted not pulling a trigger.  Better to be hard to hit than to be hit at all.

[Mirikon]

You should always worry about running out of ammo. Always. That's why the second line of that street proverb is "Conserve ammo." Even if you have five spare clips for your Predator, and five more for your Assault rifle, you still should worry about running out of ammo. Why? Because sometimes things get out of control. And sometimes you need to do things like lay down suppressive fire, which eats ammo like mad. Sure, you shouldn't go through more than a clip or two in a single fight, but who says there's going to be only one fight? Moreover, once the gunfire starts, it tends to build from there.

I'm not saying that guns are useless, but in stealth and close-quarters situations, melee is a damn good thing to have. It is even better when you're in the unlikely situation of "Oh crap, someone decided to go Romero on us!" Be prepared for situations like that, and you won't find yourself running empty, and wishing you had some melee skills to fall back on.

[Wakshaani]

I have to say, I always give respect for any character who "action heroes" hisway through guns. Shoot it until it runs out, toss it aside, grabone off a dead guy, use it for a scene, then when the scene's done, toss it somewhere off camera and leave.

Might not be smart, but it's *always* cool.

[TheBigD]

You should always worry about running out of ammo. Always. That's why the second line of that street proverb is "Conserve ammo." Even if you have five spare clips for your Predator, and five more for your Assault rifle, you still should worry about running out of ammo. Why? Because sometimes things get out of control. And sometimes you need to do things like lay down suppressive fire, which eats ammo like mad. Sure, you shouldn't go through more than a clip or two in a single fight, but who says there's going to be only one fight? Moreover, once the gunfire starts, it tends to build from there.

I'm not saying that guns are useless, but in stealth and close-quarters situations, melee is a damn good thing to have. It is even better when you're in the unlikely situation of "Oh crap, someone decided to go Romero on us!" Be prepared for situations like that, and you won't find yourself running empty, and wishing you had some melee skills to fall back on.

If the fight is really going to get out of hand, then there's already plenty of spare weaponry and ammo lying on the ground.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Ya, I think of the sargent from "We Were Soldiers:"

"If it gets to the point that I need to use a rifle, there'll be plenty of them lying around."

[Mirikon]

Assuming, of course, that whatever you're fighting is using guns that you can just pick up and go with. There are plenty of threats that don't. Like Drones, the Infected, and paracritters of all stripes. Be prepared, or be dead.

[The_Gun_Nut]

You don't take the same gear to perform different runs.

And anyone who wants to melee a paracritter...well I would let them.  After all, I don't have to outrun the paracritter, I just have to outrun the guy feeding himself to the paracritter.  (Remember, we were talking about melee combat during a run.)

[Mirikon]

Yes, and sometimes the place you need to be is on the other side of the door the paracritter is guarding. As I said, be prepared for all eventualities.

[Sichr]

I`d say "The Raid: Redemption" movie makes a good example of the situation where firefight quicklz deterirates to HtH combat
MOre to it...
I love the way Gun_Nut is representing combat situations. Avoiding any skills from Close combat group would save me a lot of karma for my next characters so I can have more usefull skills at hand. Thank you, you opened my eyes

[JustADude]

I`d say "The Raid: Redemption" movie makes a good example of the situation where firefight quicklz deterirates to HtH combat
MOre to it...
I love the way Gun_Nut is representing combat situations. Avoiding any skills from Close combat group would save me a lot of karma for my next characters so I can have more usefull skills at hand. Thank you, you opened my eyes

Take 2 ranks of Firefight, 2 ranks of Krav Maga, and Ambidextrious. That reduces the -3 Shooting in Melee penalty by 3, so you can take -0 for being in melee, get +2 for Point Blank, and alternate guns to make your ammo last longer and manage recoil better.

The other rank of Krav is so you can Ready Weapon as a free action.

[Mirikon]

So... 25 BP to be able to shoot in melee without penalty, plus whatever maneuvers you take and the points for the gun skills, as opposed to 22 BP for Blades (Insert specialization here) 5(+2). Plus, melee targets impact armor, which most people tend to have less in than ballistic armor.

[The_Gun_Nut]

And most ppl can't generate the kind of damage or penetration that firearms can.  Unless you're a souped up ork or a troll, melee output is going to be sub-optimal compared to a pair of machine pistol bursts to the face.

Don't get me wrong, I have a character that is loosely based upon Michael Weston from Burn Notice.  He has some decent HTH ability, but he sacrifices defense for pure offense (letting him double tap during a melee action).  His dice pools aren't higher than 10 or 11, but they don't need to be on the surprise round with a pair of swings coming in.  After that, it's gun time.

[Sichr]

...jammed...ammo malfunction...reload...wet powder...hacked smartgun...

things that never happen to your sword...

[Mirikon]

And most ppl can't generate the kind of damage or penetration that firearms can.  Unless you're a souped up ork or a troll, melee output is going to be sub-optimal compared to a pair of machine pistol bursts to the face.

Or an adept. Or a mage. Or Infected. Or a sapient critter. Or rigging a drone built for melee combat, which brings me back to the point that started this whole business.

Also, when things turn to melee (and they will, at some point, if your DM has even two brain cells to rub together) you have more options for dealing with it. And yes, as Sichr says, you can't hack "axe to face", but you can hack a smartgun to engage the safety or harmlessly eject the ammo, or put the crosshairs two meters to the right of where they are.