[BaronBanana]

Hello fellow GMs,
I am GMing now for about 16 years but i am only playing SR for about one year, so i am not very experienced in terms of the setting and how the world of SR properly reacts to actions taken by the players. My background is mainly D&D so i am used to quest type missions and not very good at the whole social construct surrounding the players.
Thats why i am asking you for your knowledge on how to deal with the situation described below. ANY advice or even very specific hints are welcome.

Background: At the beginning of my campaign, all the players were working as black-ops for a german AA-Corp "Ruhrmetall" to make the transition from a heroic D&D party saving the world, to the Shadowrun world easier for them. This whole prologue part ended with the usual betrayal by one of their superiors who wanted to cover his tracks. Now the group are "normal" Shadowrunners with new fake IDs but are being hunted for multiple homicide and severe corporate espionage.

Situation: One of my players decided its a good idea to load up his old limited corporate SIN (belonging to Ruhrmetall), and call a random reception desk number of the Ruhrmetall Headquarters telling them that he has vital information about data theft incidents etc. Basically he is leaving a huge data trail on purpose to force a reaction. He bought some stuff at various locations with his old "burned" SIN active and finally gave the disposable commlink he used to call RM to a homeless guy, and is now watching that person.

What is the appropriate move here? How do AA-Corps deal with traitors, are they gonna take the bait and rush a rapid response team or do they wait and get him while he is defenseless or do they don't care about something that happened 3-4 month ago? Do they want to kill him or just capture and interrogate?

As already pointed out above ANY advice would be very welcome. Thanks in advance!

[firebug]

As a GM, to make the right decisions about a Big Bad, you have to know that character.  What kind of resources does he have?  How open can he be with what he does?  How much pull within his company does he have?  What does he actually want covered up, and how damaging to his reputation (or wallet) would it be for it to be discovered?

Even though you played it as a generic "superior" doing it, think about it like it was one guy.

Without knowing what the PCs did while part of Ruhrmetall (because if they were spies with dangerous information that's one thing, while being ex-hitmen is another entirely) I'm going to assume they were part of something illegal and the The Man doesn't want any witnesses who could tell others about what the corp is trying to accomplish.  While it's harsh to the player, I can't see capture or interrogation being goals of the corp.  The latter won't tell them anything they don't already know, and the former won't actually silence them.  Keep in mind this is probably not a corp-wide decision--  It falls to one man's decision, whomever was overseeing most of their "work".  He might have to keep it secret from the rest of Ruhrmetall even.

In this case, any response they make can't be an overt one.  If the point is to erase witnesses, they can't risk raising more suspicion.  This means they can't simply contact Lonestar or Knight Errant and tell them there's a criminal afoot, nor can they bring a whole High Threat Response team down on his head.  That would lead to an investigation, which might backfire.

Instead, it's actually very likely that he would hire another team of runners, paying them very well in order to follow this trail.  And he's not dumb; he knows it's deliberate.  The "calling random numbers and telling them you have illegal info" move made it obvious that he's doing it to lead them on.  However, he's still given himself away and so the best course of action is to send more disposable assets after him to find him with the knowledge that it is a trap.

And here's where your player needs to realize what he's done.  Unless the rest of his team is with him, he could be seriously screwed.  They know the commlink is disposable; so following it right to the commlink it worthless.  But because of his purchases, they know generally where he lives.  Because of his old SIN, they have know exactly what he looks like and likely other vital information about him.  It won't be difficult to find him with any amount of information, especially if he actually is still staying near his disposable commlink.

If he's alone, his living space will get tear-gas grenades thrown into the windows while he's asleep while the runners (which would number at least 3 or 4) break down the door ready to kill him.  If he lives alone...  He's fucked.  His Lifestyle would determine how long the other runners have before the cops show, but if it's Low then that could be too long.  Trying to escape would be the only option, and if he manages (which, assuming he's a meat-tank Street Samurai, grabbing your armor jacket and then bolting could keep you alive) he'll need to find a new place to stay and hope RM loses his trail.

It likely will result in his death--  or at least a burnt Edge for the Hand of God to save him.  And don't feel bad about this.  It's not an unfair death and the player knew what he was doing, poking and proding a corp.

If you follow my scenario, the way I'd have the Hand of God work is, after he "dies" and permanently burns an point of Edge, Lone Star miraculously shows up early, causing the enemy runners to high-tail it out of there as soon as possible, thinking they did what must be done.  But really, Lone Star was actually going to somewhere else nearby, leaving your player dangling at one point from bleeding out, but stable.

The result would be that he'd be unconcious for days if not weeks, that homeless guy would come and steal all the stuff from his apartment, and had better hope his allies come to check in on him.  The plus side?  RM thinks it worked.  They think he's dead, and if the PC is good maybe he can lie to his friends and pretend like that's what he wanted to happen all along...  And totally didn't just get as close to murdered as possible.

[Marlowe]

I'd have to second Firebug here.  Dead men tell no tales, and a dead guilty party is good enough for the corps in the SR world.

Now if you're afraid your PC is too boxed in and don't want to kill him off, you can have a rival exec "save" your PC as part of a corporate chess match with the Big Bad.  Just make sure that the PC knows that it comes at a steep price - the new boss would basically own him and barring going deep (Erased, reconstructive surgery, etc.) there's really no way out for your PC.

The world of SR (and the SR system) is a lot deadlier than most D&D games/worlds and you'll want to emphasize that to highlight the importance of legwork to a runner.

[firebug]

The world of SR (and the SR system) is a lot deadlier than most D&D games/worlds and you'll want to emphasize that to highlight the importance of legwork to a runner.

Honestly, I feel that's not entirely correct...  Any game with that Hand of God mechanic (like the Warhammer roleplaying games, for instance) always make one thing clear:  There's many fates that are worse than simply dieing.  Anyone who goes into combat regularly, lives fast-and-dangerous like a runner knows they could die any day.

What Marlowe said?  That's worse.  I'm sure a lot of runners would rather die than be forced into being a corporate marionette, where they are owned by that corp more than the wageslaves around them.

If you do go that route, it's a great way to show the players what the real danger of the Sixth World is.  "Everything has a price."

[Marlowe]

The world of SR (and the SR system) is a lot deadlier than most D&D games/worlds and you'll want to emphasize that to highlight the importance of legwork to a runner.

What Marlowe said?  That's worse.  I'm sure a lot of runners would rather die than be forced into being a corporate marionette, where they are owned by that corp more than the wageslaves around them.

Don't forget these runners were already company men so obviously it doesn't bother them that much.  Although it's one thing to work for a company and another to be a virtual slave to a scheming executive who you know will cut you loose as soon as it suits him.

[Agonar]

I agree with what was said above.

Calling and hinting that a character knows vital info was just poking the wasp's nest.  The corp might have been fine with the betrayal, and having the character on the run, but now that at least one of them has basically threatened revealing secrets, they can't be allowed to live.

How far does this go in the corp?  Is their supervisor trying to advance in the ranks?  Can this info hurt just him, his division, the entire Corp?  Chances are, the entire Corp would be somewhat fine, but any info might hurt this particular Supervisor's chance at advancement.  Think Robocop, Dick Jones is trying to push the E.D. 209, but a public execution in the board room makes the CEO decide to give someone else a chance to step in and deprive Dick of all his contracts and money/power-making opportunities.

Maybe the Rival Corp is a Jr. Executive to their enemy, and sees this as his chance to remove the rank ahead of him so that he can slide up into a more cushy position.  Or maybe their would-be savior is higher up, and sees this as a chance to get the ankle-biter from challenging his position in the corporation.


Being a AA corp, they have resources, so they might start with a Decker, tracking the commlink.  Find out where it is now, who had it before.  Was the commlink purchased with the Runner's real Corp SIN, or with a fake SIN.  Are any of his accounts linked to that SIN?  Is his current Lifestyle linked to that SIN?  It wouldn't be too hard for a Corp to mess with the Runner's money, and potentially hire a hit-team of Runners with the character's own money (unless he keeps it all on Certified sticks).  With a proper data trail, maybe they can trace it back to the rest of the group, and find out where the rest hang out, or any safehouses, so that they can arrange ambushes elsewhere.

Since the whole group previously worked for this Corporation, it is not likely that just this particular character will be dealt with, and not the entire group.  So ultimate, a faked death will probably be necessary, or working for this other Corp in the company and relying on his protection (and being a slave tot he company again), or going balls out and trying to take this particular Exec out, and hope that with his death, the threat to the group's lives stop.

I once played a Character that was essentially a Corp assassin, that was betrayed by her employer.  She joined a group of runners to accomplish something, and her employer bombed their payment, and tried to kill them all.  Through a chance situation, the bomb went off while the money was somewhat isolated from the group, so only major injuries occurred, no deaths.  My character in particular took a vow that day to kill that particular exec, and hope that the company wouldn't take it amiss.. and if so, she would then go on to take out the company (knowing that she was far outmatched against the entire corporation, but willing to die trying if it came to that). 

In any case, it definitely gives the GM plot hooks and game material to last for a while.  You can run published material, and break up any slow bits in the middle with anonymous hit teams, leaving the group to wonder if they are related to their current job, or this looming corporate threat.  Fun times.

[BaronBanana]

Thanks a lot guys, you have already given me a lot of info to work with

I also came to the solution that they probably want to kill him since this is the hidden backstory:
One high ranking manager of the blackops department (special marketing operations) was basically selling information about new weapons tech. The characters noticed that something like this was going on and while they were investigating they made themselves the target to take the fall for the blackops manager. To get out of the situation (they were cornered) they took out 3/4 of another Ruhrmetall blackops team and some security guys. So obviously Ruhrmetall isn't cool about the whole thing plus that particular manager wants to have them dead, so that they can't talk.

But i am really struggling to send him a death squad, because he is actually not doing this because he is stupid but because he wants to find out more about the betrayal to avenge his sister (who got geeked in the process of fleeing). Plus we rather prefer consistent long-term character development. So i am looking for a way to show him, that he just cant mess around being an demigod-like level 213421 paladin (his D&D character), but a lowlife shadowrunner, without having him killed while he can't do anything about it.

[firebug]

But i am really struggling to send him a death squad, because he is actually not doing this because he is stupid but because he wants to find out more about the betrayal to avenge his sister (who got geeked in the process of fleeing). Plus we rather prefer consistent long-term character development. So i am looking for a way to show him, that he just cant mess around being an demigod-like level 213421 paladin (his D&D character), but a lowlife shadowrunner, without having him killed while he can't do anything about it.

Well, first off, with Hand of God he won't actually die, as I said.  Second of all...  He kind of is stupid.  How could provoking the corp help him find information about the betrayal?  He knows they'd send people after him, but those people will have absolutely no information about what he wants to know.  Why would they?  The Big Bad isn't gonna tell all his assassins his secret plans; knowing about them is why your PCs got burnt in the first place.

What I suggested actually is a really good way to show him that he put himself in over his head.  He'll come close to dieing (but again won't as long as his character has an Edge Attribute of 1) and it will take a bit of heat off of him because they'll believe they succeeded.

I'm not a wrathful GM, and I'm never the kind who will punish disruptive players by doing unreasonably cruel things to their characters, but this situation is a lot different.  It's not really a punishment, it's just...  My original post is prettymuch the best-case-scenario.

No one dies permanently, and his only real punishment is the loss of whatever a hobo steals (which likely won't be any gear--  What's a SINless gonna do with a commlink?) and having to move to a new apartment, which won't actually cost him anything more assuming he picks the same lifestyle.

The player (and the character) realize that they can't fight the corp head-on.  He can try another approach, like finding another piece of data and offering in exchange for information...  Without first going out of his way to paint his location on the world map in neon dye.  Which is what he should have done in the first place.

[Agonar]

Thanks a lot guys, you have already given me a lot of info to work with
But i am really struggling to send him a death squad, because he is actually not doing this because he is stupid but because he wants to find out more about the betrayal to avenge his sister (who got geeked in the process of fleeing). Plus we rather prefer consistent long-term character development. So i am looking for a way to show him, that he just cant mess around being an demigod-like level 213421 paladin (his D&D character), but a lowlife shadowrunner, without having him killed while he can't do anything about it.

First off, in Shadowrun, everyone should have an Edge rating of at least 1, so the only way a character actually dies, is if they choose to die.  So you shouldn't worry too much about pulling punches for fear of killing characters.

Second, it sounds to me like they should have been Decking their way into the corp's computers, or hiring a Decker to do it, to get more info, rather than poking the Corp with a stick and provoking them.  But, since one of the group's sisters was killed, it sounds like that particular member, if not the whole team, might already have an agenda that includes taking Ruhrmetall to the ground.  Finding a way to keep track of Ruhrmetall's agenda, and do what they can to hinder it.  Steal prototypes and sell them, kill extraction targets, or tip off their target's corporation about the extraction attempt. 

With what the characters did, it doesn't sound likely that Ruhrmetall is going to give up lightly, so ultimately the consequences of the group's actions need to fit those actions.  Don't be afraid of killing anyone, see above.  If they don't want to lose a character, they have means..  but, if you let them do things like that without serious consequences, they aren't going to lose that D&D mentality of being a demigod like Paladin able to do what they wish without repercussions.

I run an online Shadowrun game, and most of the players are players of D&D only, so I am experiencing a lot of that same mentality.  Kill the badguys, loot their bodies, and sell the loot for money.  They already pulled the "Wait, she was running some pretty wicked wired reflexes, lets carry her out in a sack and sell her"..  if they try stuff like that again, they are going to realize that certain people don't necessarily want to deal with them anymore.  The word will get around, and actions like that leave too much of a trail spread around for people to find.   They almost executed a member of an Enemy runner team, after interrogating him.. I almost let them, except that they are new to Shadowrun, so I kind of informed them that word if stuff like that gets around.. and usually between teams, business is business, but if you get a rep as someone who murders captives, things might not go well for you in the future if the roles are reversed.

[BaronBanana]

Kill the badguys, loot their bodies, and sell the loot for money.  They already pulled the "Wait, she was running some pretty wicked wired reflexes, lets carry her out in a sack and sell her"..

I am glad to hear that i am not the only one who has to deal with this kind of stuff

I guess you guys made a good point on how to deal with this. Since he has two edge left there shouldn't be a problem with implementing your ideas.

Do you think its too evil if i send a squad over to his safe-house (which isn't safe anymore because ppl are coming and going frequently since he was just too lazy to get a new home after all the other characters left the safe-house) and just smoke his 10x10 room with gas while he is sleeping in addition to some explosives at the only exit if he leaves? Or shall i do this  the fair way like in the movies where the bad guys announce themselves and give him a fair chance in a firefight?

[Agonar]

Do you think its too evil if i send a squad over to his safe-house (which isn't safe anymore because ppl are coming and going frequently since he was just too lazy to get a new home after all the other characters left the safe-house) and just smoke his 10x10 room with gas while he is sleeping in addition to some explosives at the only exit if he leaves? Or shall i do this  the fair way like in the movies where the bad guys announce themselves and give him a fair chance in a firefight?

It depends.  Put it all into perspective of which SIN everything is tied to, as to whether they will be able to find his home.  If it's near the homeless guy (a few block radius), then either way they will probably find it, just through matrix search and face recognition.

Then, is the safe-house ever left alone?  Are other people awake in shifts, or watching the place?  Are there any higher buildings across the street with a good view of a window or two?

You could take a cue from one of the later Hiddengrid podcast episodes.  there was a mass hit placed on the gorup.  Several members were attacked while driving, but one was attacked in his apartment.  The GM gave him a chance to notice something was odd with a Perception check.  He happend to glance out his window, and notice someone across the street setting up a missile/rocket/grenade launcher.  This gave him a little bit of time to try to get some cover before the explosive was launched/fired into the room.  Damage was dealt, adjusted for the cover and chunky salsa (though they forgot the walls, and that the blast might have gone through the walls, and thus not rebounded)..

Either way, the character survived, the team figured he was dead, and the game continued from there.

[TsuiPen]

Wow, I envy you for your party's... proactive approach to involve themselves into the world!
I agree it was dumb to poke Ruhrmetall (a double A-corp is not small at all, keep in mind they have extraterritoriality), but I would be lenient in this case as your players are new to the environment - but you now have a great opportunity to show them!

For instance, no corp is just a single minded entity, they have power struggles within, their managers have high pressure to perform, etc, and they have hierarchies. Let me draw you a picture what I was thinking when I read what they did: When your Runner calls a random number and tells some service lady about data theft, she directs that at her supervisor. He might initiate a background check, "oh, it's one of our citizen, his SIN is marked 'wanted'". This is when Ruhrmetall's intelligence department gets wind of the thing, they connect the dots to the blackops department, "under who's authority did this guy operate?", the villainious Manager is put in the hot seat and asked some pointed questions. Of course, maybe the intelligence department already has some leads on someone selling their weapon's tech - and decide your Runner(s) could add some useful information, so the official investigation is about to detain and interrogate the Runners. Which the Manager cannot have, so he sends some runners of his own after your Runners to take them out before the intelligence department gets their hands on them.
Suddenly two parties are involved, but to another manager within the blackops department this whole shenanigan spells "opportunity", this could be his time to rise, if only the flames burn high enough to bring the evil Manager to fall - so he decides to fan those flames bit! Either by giving the Runners crucial tips, or by giving a tip to some rival corp who Ruhrmetall has been spying on/conducted sabotage against, and they could be very interested in hard evidence against Ruhrmetall to make a case at court.

Your Runners will be oblivious to most of this of course - but maybe their inside man tells them some stuff and/or they get a call from their fixer, who is very distraught and tells them there have been some serious requests within his networks (Ruhrmetall has their face scans, voice patterns, biometric data etc I guess), and there was substantial amounts of money offered - from multiple parties!
It would be funny if they get hunted for information they actually do not even have, because the corps are paranoid and always assume the worst case^^

If in the end the Runners end up helping Ruhrmetall to fix their leak (expose the evil Manager), there might be enough closure for Ruhrmetall to not keep their intelligence department busy with hunting down the Runners for some old grudge. There is always bigger fish to fry, and your Runners might learn the lesson to not purposefully try look like a big fish and the value of a low profile.

[Reaver]

Keep in mind too that even a double A Corp has to "play by the rules" when out of their yard. Meaning they just can't send a security team anywhere they please.

But, nothing stops them from sending "deniable assets" (other runners) to do their dirty work. But also keep in mind that at the end if the day, a corp is about making money... and revenge doesn't make you money.  Also, data has an expiry date... that wiz-hot cyberdeck plan is a gold mine... until the next wiz-hot cyberdeck comes out...

Given time frames and character actions,  its possible that the players could be met with a blank stare and a bored "who are you again?? And why do we care??" Attitude.  (Which, knowing most player's egos,  would be a royal slap to the face!)