[Vidnaut]

Help!  I've put an Internal Air Tank into a cyberleg but I'm having trouble coming up with some convincing biotechnobabble to explain how one doesn't need to reroute the entire pulmonary system to account for the fact that the "lung" that oxygenates the blood is now located in the left leg.  How is it that it still enables maintaining oxygen levels in the blood even with the roundabout method of getting blood into the right ventricle of the heart while still being able to dump carbon dioxide into the lungs to be breathed out?  Mechanically this should work but the fluff is getting tied in knots (at least in my head)!

[CopperHead]

Well, I would say that the tank and all the moving bits and bobs associated with it (pumps, filters, and so forth) are implanted in the cyberleg. From the air tank to the lungs runs a system of hoses along the outside of the arteries that then plugs in to the lung(s) and delivers oxygen and removes carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide could be emitted through a one-way valve built into the leg expressly for that purpose. The whole of the hose system should not be extremely invasive, could be run along the artery using current medical techniques or built along the artery through nanosurgery, and has no moving parts. That's the simplest method I could think of, without resorting to turning the air tank into an artificial lung.

Hope that Helps!

[Novocrane]

Refilling the air tank with pressurized air through an intake valve (located under your ribcage) takes five minutes, or you can refill it through six hours of normal breathing.

Why not ditch the standard concept of a gas air tank?
Imagine you have two semi-permeable membranes separating three liquid filled sections. Both membranes allow oxygen to pass inwards, and carbon dioxide to pass outwards. The outermost section dissolves oxygen in a process that takes six hours to complete unless connected to a pressurised air tank. The central section can hold enough oxygen for (rating) hours. The innermost section, when active, has blood constantly passing though it and being oxygenated.

[CopperHead]

Sounds feasible Novocrane. The only question I would have is, with that "air tank" being in the leg, where would you tap into the blood from? From the top of my head I would guess the (now truncated) femoral artery and vein. Mind you, I don't have any deep medical or engineering knowledge, I just like coming up with "fluff" that explains the general concept of how unusual circumstances can work...like having a reserve of air that's usually implanted in your lungs now implanted in a cyberleg 

[PeterSmith]

I think you're overthinking this a bit. The tank is like the tank I use when I dive, only smaller and with higher internal pressure. You don't need to re-route the lung function to the tank, just run a line up from the tank to the lung with the proper valving.

[Vidnaut]

I think you're overthinking this a bit.

But...but...that's what I DO!

The tank is like the tank I use when I dive, only smaller and with higher internal pressure. You don't need to re-route the lung function to the tank, just run a line up from the tank to the lung with the proper valving.

Well, if one isn't replacing the lung itself with the air tank then you have to factor for biology.  Carbon dioxide gets dumped back into the lungs to be exhaled by venous blood traveling back via veins through the heart's left ventricle.  Then gets passed through the lung to be oxygenated and then pumped through the pulmanory vein into the right ventricle of the heart to go through arteries to deposite it and the process starts all over again.  You kinda do need to do some bypass plumbing or have some overrides to just have it so you lose essence, not @#$% up your entire circulatory system when you want to use it.  The problem is the tank is on the far end of the body to have oxygenated blood pumped back into it means using the vein which is going through the left ventricle to dump carbon dioxide means that you lose oxygen that way so you need a bypass to get the oxygen into the pulmanory vein to oxygenate blood on its way to the right ventricle of the heart and into the arteries where they should be going but that extends WAY beyond the cyberleg at that point.

OF COURSE I'M OVERTHINKING IT!  I need the community's help on thinking something moderately hard enough to so I don't have my science soft enough to spread on a bagel with lox and my brain doesn't melt from overheating as it processes in creatively more intricate circles.

[farothel]

You don't need to go to the lung.  You have the tank in the leg and you have an oxygen exchange system somewhere in the groin area.  I see this as a group of small oxygen tubes that run into the groin area and there are connected with a net of small blood vessels and the oxygen is exchanged like in the lungs, through a membrane where the two connect.  You can remove the carbon dioxide the same way or have to get out through the regular lungs, which then exhale pure carbon dioxide (which you can use to continue speaking while the cyber system is active).

[PeterSmith]

Well, if one isn't replacing the lung itself with the air tank then you have to factor for biology.  Carbon dioxide gets dumped back into the lungs to be exhaled by venous blood traveling back via veins through the heart's left ventricle.  Then gets passed through the lung to be oxygenated and then pumped through the pulmanory vein into the right ventricle of the heart to go through arteries to deposite it and the process starts all over again.  You kinda do need to do some bypass plumbing or have some overrides to just have it so you lose essence, not @#$% up your entire circulatory system when you want to use it.  The problem is the tank is on the far end of the body to have oxygenated blood pumped back into it means using the vein which is going through the left ventricle to dump carbon dioxide means that you lose oxygen that way so you need a bypass to get the oxygen into the pulmanory vein to oxygenate blood on its way to the right ventricle of the heart and into the arteries where they should be going but that extends WAY beyond the cyberleg at that point.

I get all of that. What I'd like to know is why wouldn't you just implant your second stage regulator in the trachea, running a line up from the first stage regulator attached to the tank? Why reinvent the wheel when all you really want to do is have two paths to send air into the lungs? As for the essence loss aspect of it, I don't see it being that invasive of an implant. Baseline is 0.25 points of essence lost, which puts it between R1 and R2 cybereyes/ears. Truly the most damaging part of the tank would be the refilling mechanism by way of "normal" breathing.

[Vidnaut]

Well, if one isn't replacing the lung itself with the air tank then you have to factor for biology.  Carbon dioxide gets dumped back into the lungs to be exhaled by venous blood traveling back via veins through the heart's left ventricle.  Then gets passed through the lung to be oxygenated and then pumped through the pulmanory vein into the right ventricle of the heart to go through arteries to deposite it and the process starts all over again.  You kinda do need to do some bypass plumbing or have some overrides to just have it so you lose essence, not @#$% up your entire circulatory system when you want to use it.  The problem is the tank is on the far end of the body to have oxygenated blood pumped back into it means using the vein which is going through the left ventricle to dump carbon dioxide means that you lose oxygen that way so you need a bypass to get the oxygen into the pulmanory vein to oxygenate blood on its way to the right ventricle of the heart and into the arteries where they should be going but that extends WAY beyond the cyberleg at that point.

I get all of that. What I'd like to know is why wouldn't you just implant your second stage regulator in the trachea, running a line up from the first stage regulator attached to the tank? Why reinvent the wheel when all you really want to do is have two paths to send air into the lungs? As for the essence loss aspect of it, I don't see it being that invasive of an implant. Baseline is 0.25 points of essence lost, which puts it between R1 and R2 cybereyes/ears. Truly the most damaging part of the tank would be the refilling mechanism by way of "normal" breathing.

That's the thing, it's not essence, it's capacity in the leg.  If you muck about too much outside of that it goes beyond the envelope of capacity.  I'm beginning to think that the capacity part was built with a cybertorso in mind with the knots I'm tying myself into thinking about it.

[farothel]

Truly the most damaging part of the tank would be the refilling mechanism by way of "normal" breathing.

Just add a refiller point in the leg, where you can attach it to a compressor and refill it that way.  Much easier and faster.  Okay, it looks a bit silly with a hose attached to your leg, but one must do some sacrifices for extra air. 

[PeterSmith]

I know about the port. There is also the six hour "normal" breathing option to passively refill the tank.

[farothel]

I know about the port. There is also the six hour "normal" breathing option to passively refill the tank.

It's been a while since I read the books, so I forgot about that option.  You can add that also to the tank in the leg, a sort of micro compressor that refills the tank and takes six hours to do so.  That way you don't need to add something to the lungs.

[Sichr]

I`ve always wanted to see some lucky ganger`s non-lethal shot to the leg to go big KABOOM

[farothel]

I`ve always wanted to see some lucky ganger`s non-lethal shot to the leg to go big KABOOM

you have that no matter where you install the thing.  If you ever seen a first stage regulator letting go off a scuba tank while they were filling it, you will know what I mean.  If you don't, check out this link and you will: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFIwafakjMc

[Vidnaut]

I`ve always wanted to see some lucky ganger`s non-lethal shot to the leg to go big KABOOM

you have that no matter where you install the thing.  If you ever seen a first stage regulator letting go off a scuba tank while they were filling it, you will know what I mean.  If you don't, check out this link and you will: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFIwafakjMc

Not so much "Kaboom" as "I must go!  My people need me!"