[firebug]

I've been paging through a bunch of sci-fi and cyberpunk pictures and came across one with a character wielding a knife while it crackles with blue electricity.  After some googling, it turns out it'd happened in real life, so I'm surprised something like that hasn't been in Shadowrun.

It seems like it'd be a cool weapon, up there with shock gloves, but I'm not sure how I'd handle it.  I wanna get the elephant in the room out of the way first though--  I know that it's neither RAW or RAI for "punching someone with your shock gloves" to add unarmed damage, and I don't want a weapon like that.  An electrified sword is a pretty flashy sci-fi weapon though, so it'd be cool to figure out that stats for one.

I've never seen any kind of weapon in the game do split damage though, so I'd assume the whole thing would have to be electric damage.

In order for it to not just be better or worse than shock gloves...  Let's see.

NAME            | ACCURACY      | REACH     | DAMAGE      | AP  |AVAIL | COST Stun Dagger | 5                     | -              | (STR+1)P(e)| -3   | 10R   |500¥

Basing the accuracy and damage on a normal knife, but giving it more AP to reflect how elemental damage is handled.  I didn't go as high as Shock Gloves because the blade itself is still a factor.  I feel like the damage should be way higher, since logically it should hurt more than stabbing someone with a knife, but I didn't want it to completely overshadow the Combat Knife, even taking the same restrictions as the Shock Gloves into account.

Any ideas on what could logically be done to it for it to fit better without making it simply overpowered?

[JackVII]

I'd probably just look at how they handled Club -> Stun Baton and mimic that. Damage is probably closer to the static 8S or 9S of the shock gloves and stun baton. Probably closer to 8S to be honest. AP for the electric weapons is a static -5.

Basically, shock gloves for someone with terrible physical stats or a more conealable, less damaging stun baton.

[firebug]

I could do that, but it seems weird to me for it to do Stun damage if you're also cutting them or stabbing them with a knife, you know?  With the stun baton and shock gloves, I assume you're just kind of poking someone.  Like the baton is more or less just a melee-range taser or cattle prod.  Which is why it's not based on strength for damage at all, too.  Like I said, I made the AP lower to take into account that it interacts with armor more because actually cutting or piercing is still relevant.

I'm trying to design an electric weapon that you still wound people with--  Not as an alternative non-lethal option, but as just an enhancement to the weapon in general at the expense of it requiring a battery or power source.

[JackVII]

I probably wouldn't call it a Stun Dagger if you don't intend for it to stun.

It's probably balanced okay. Against mooks, (S) and (P) are generally supposed to be the same thing, so it shouldn't make a big difference. With that said, if you give it to someone with a really solid strength, they are going to be wrecking stuff, particularly with the seperate dice penalty and initiative penalty that electrical attacks deliver.

I think one of the things that should be considered is that it shouldn't benefit from the glancing attack rules and you can't use it to just do a touch attack. I would also think this might be a Forbidden weapon, just considering how nasty it is. Then again, I've never really understood how cyberimplant blades are forbidden when cyberimplant guns are not (even silenced/supressed, if one goes strictly by the chart), so I'm not sure what goes into the calculation there.

[Sendaz]

Maybe treat it like vibroweapons , but the added damage is from the crackling electricity rather than high oscillation of the blade and you have the added element of (e) for zapping people/frying electronics.

[Namikaze]

I like the idea of the vibroblade comparison.  I'm not completely sure what the purpose of a weapon like this would be though.  If you're trying to stun, you generally aren't also trying to kill.  I'd treat it as a lethal weapon that has the added benefits that come from being struck with an electric weapon.  The AP issue is legitimate though - does the weapon have to puncture to do damage (like a knife)?  If so, the AP should be based on the knife.  If not, it should be based on the club.

[Sendaz]

Then again, I've never really understood how cyberimplant blades are forbidden when cyberimplant guns are not (even silenced/supressed, if one goes strictly by the chart), so I'm not sure what goes into the calculation there.

I would ask what is the legality of a cyberimplant screwdriver?  Legal device that I use on the job and still can shank someone with it.

[firebug]

I like the idea of the vibroblade comparison.  I'm not completely sure what the purpose of a weapon like this would be though.  If you're trying to stun, you generally aren't also trying to kill.  I'd treat it as a lethal weapon that has the added benefits that come from being struck with an electric weapon.  The AP issue is legitimate though - does the weapon have to puncture to do damage (like a knife)?  If so, the AP should be based on the knife.  If not, it should be based on the club.

The "stun" in the title was a misnomer...  Sorry on my part.  I'll rename the thread to something else.  I do intend for the final result to be a 100% lethal weapon, which is why I'm having trouble balancing it since the idea of the eletricity would be the add lethality to a melee weapon that is still relatively concealable (assuming the base weapon is a dagger of some sort).  The closest "real life example" I've seen can still shock someone with a touch, but it didn't actually seem to hurt them much so in Shadowrun it'd be fair to say it can't do damage unless you've punctured them with the knife.

I don't know how vibroblades work in Shadowrun, so I can't really say about them...  But if I think about it just in terms of "high damage and good concealability but has charges" could I go with like...  STR + 4 for the damage, keeping the AP at -3?  If it needs it, I could also see an excuse for it having less charges too--  Like, only five or something.

[Michael Chandra]

I might go with a weapon with bonus-damage and bonus-AP, so a knife that has to first do Physical damage (aka Pierce the Armor) and then gives out the electrical zap.

[Namikaze]

That would be interesting, Michael.  Something with a trigger built into the handle?  OOOoooh, and the wireless bonus could be that you can electrify the handle of the blade to shock someone that shouldn't be using it. 

[firebug]

I might go with a weapon with bonus-damage and bonus-AP, so a knife that has to first do Physical damage (aka Pierce the Armor) and then gives out the electrical zap.

So like, the knife just functions like a normal knife, but when you hit, if you deal Physical damage you can then force them to resist another attack that's like a slightly weaker Stun Glove hit?  That's like how I've heard people suggest punching with stun gloves work, but the fact that you'll need to do physical damage does make it less abusable (not that I'm sure how abusable it'd be in the first place).

[Michael Chandra]

Nah, a double attack is more problematic and works poorly against people with high soak rolls. I'd just boost the knife's attack on a hit. Or you could always include the electrical damage but make it Stun if the knife (without the added electrical AP&damage) doesn't pierce the armor.

[WellsIDidIt]

I would personally just stat it out doing physical damage and then include in the rules that damage is split between Stun and Physical as though the wielder had been making a called shot using the Splitting the Difference rules (SR5, p. 196).

The applicable rule:

If the attack is successful the damage is split between the two condition monitors; if the damage was an odd number, make the Stun Damage the higher value. If the modified total Damage Value of the attack is less than the modified Armor Value of the defense, the attack ends up doing only half damage, all of it applied to Stun.

There are probably better ways to capture the flavor, but I prefer to reuse rules that exist when I can. Keeps things simple.

[The Bald Man]

My suggestion is to treat it like the melee weapon then as long as it does any damage apply the normal electrical penalties (initiative reduction and whatever else...away from book), but no additional damage.

[Namikaze]

My suggestion is to treat it like the melee weapon then as long as it does any damage apply the normal electrical penalties (initiative reduction and whatever else...away from book), but no additional damage.

Ditto.