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Ultrasound questions and clarification

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samoth

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« on: <03-01-14/1357:00> »
How is Ultrasound displayed for your field of vision?  Do you need an Image link?  Is it an overlay or does it replace your normal sight?

What exactly does the rating of the sensor represent in terms of die rolls?

In the Sensor Housings sidebar on pg. 446, "Headware" is listed with a max capacity of 2; how does this work in regards to the cyber Ultrasound Sensor, and what other headware could it be installed in?  What is the cost, rating x 100Y (based on Single Sensor)?

Can adepts take it as an Enhanced Sense?
« Last Edit: <03-01-14/1359:58> by samoth »

Ryo

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« Reply #1 on: <03-01-14/1414:49> »
How is Ultrasound displayed for your field of vision?  Do you need an Image link?  Is it an overlay or does it replace your normal sight?

What exactly does the rating of the sensor represent in terms of die rolls?

In the Sensor Housings sidebar on pg. 446, "Headware" is listed with a max capacity of 2; how does this work in regards to the cyber Ultrasound Sensor, and what other headware could it be installed in?  What is the cost, rating x 100Y (based on Single Sensor)?

Can adepts take it as an Enhanced Sense?

If its a cyberware, you don't need an image link, and it replaces your normal sight. Without cyberware, an ultrasound sensor would overlay your vision with an image link, or you'd have to look at the screen to see what it senses.

Sensor ratings are used as the Limit in 5th edition, so When you roll Perception to see with your ultrasound sensor, you'd roll Perception + Intuition [Sensor].

The Ultrasound Sensor cyberware ignores the Sensor Housings table. In fact, every sensor in the book ignores the Sensor Housings table, unless you build one specifically using that table. It's rather confusing. And yes, you'd pay the cost of a Single Sensor.

Adepts can take any sense granted by cyberware or bioware, provided it does not require wireless or provide a dice pool bonus. Ultrasound has neither, so it should be fair game.

Mithlas

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« Reply #2 on: <03-01-14/1428:17> »
Ryo has already clearly said most of what I was going to say, but I'll add a little of my interpretation from 4E and looking into 5E:

4E implied (I think relatively clearly) that it was overlayed on your standard vision and required an Image Link (unless it was cyberware, when it hooked into your brain through DNI). I haven't seen any indication that this is different in 5E. I suspect that this sensor allows you to notice things at your base Perception rather than providing additional die to spot something (like Image Enhancement would).

Think of it something like sonar - the sensor sends out a ping through the air and measures the reflected information so its software can convert it into a visual image that can be readily processed by the average brain. I know that bioware could give people extended range of hearing to mimic some of this, and pretty much anything bioware could do adept powers could replicate, so I don't see why this wouldn't be an option. The issue is that the adept wouldn't innately have any means of sending out the pulses that the Ultrasound sensor has included, so it could act as a passive ultrasonic detector and might sense motion within the radius (and "LOS" if your GM decides it doesn't work well around corners?).

Headware - I was thinking that Max Sensor Rating indicated the highest level rating you could plug in (rating determines what bonus it might give in 4E but acts as the Limit in 5E, and indicated capacity in both if I read correctly).

Insaniac99

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« Reply #3 on: <03-01-14/1436:45> »
you can also use Electronic warfare for perception with a sensor, which is what most of my riggers and deckers do (they have dedicated spotting drones too)
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Novocrane

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« Reply #4 on: <03-01-14/1845:08> »
you can also use Electronic warfare for perception with a sensor, which is what most of my riggers and deckers do (they have dedicated spotting drones too)
Just to clarify; only with sensor arrays, which can't fit into a handheld sensor housing. Not that drones have that problem.

Magnaric

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« Reply #5 on: <03-16-14/0205:01> »
The way I always thought of Ultrasound(granted I play 4E) was an overlay to normal vision. So you see one thing, but if there is a discrepancy in the 3d, the ultrasound will show that in the overlay. Basically a more sophisticated version of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1dCI7es_wM
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Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <03-16-14/0347:35> »
Pretty sure the Ultrasound augmentation replace your normal vision (and limit you to a 50 meter "range").
« Last Edit: <03-16-14/0349:39> by Xenon »

Insaniac99

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« Reply #7 on: <03-17-14/0357:42> »
you can also use Electronic warfare for perception with a sensor, which is what most of my riggers and deckers do (they have dedicated spotting drones too)
Just to clarify; only with sensor arrays, which can't fit into a handheld sensor housing. Not that drones have that problem.

That's a good clarification, my players haven't really been buying individual sensors so it hasn't come up.

The way I always thought of Ultrasound(granted I play 4E) was an overlay to normal vision. So you see one thing, but if there is a discrepancy in the 3d, the ultrasound will show that in the overlay. Basically a more sophisticated version of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1dCI7es_wM
Pretty sure the Ultrasound augmentation replace your normal vision (and limit you to a 50 meter "range").
Do we have page references for either of these interpretations or is it strictly table rule? I couldn't find either way.
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Xenon

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« Reply #8 on: <03-17-14/0446:36> »
SR5 452 Headware - Ultrasound Sensor
This cyberware is exactly like the ultrasound sensor. When active, it replaces your normal vision. It can be switched between active sonar, passive sonar, and off with a Free Action.

SR5 p. 446 Sensors - Sensor Function Table
Function: Ultrasound
Max Range: 50 meters


SR5 p. 174 Environmental Modifiers - Light/Glare
Ultrasound eliminates the penalty in any light (but only within 50 meters)

SR5 p. 175 Environmental Modifiers - Environmental Compensation Table
Compensation: Ultrasound
Effect: Visibility shifts one row up, ignore Light conditions (within 50 meters)
« Last Edit: <03-17-14/0452:16> by Xenon »

WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #9 on: <03-17-14/0644:41> »
Keep in mind, it only replaces when it's active. You can set it to passive without replacing your normal vision. Per p.446, in passive "it doesn’t emit ultrasonic pulses but still picks up ultrasound from outside sources, such as motion sensors or someone else’s ultrasound sensors on active mode (or bats)."

That said, keep in mind that both trodes and motion sensors use ultrasound tech to work in SR. This actually makes passive mode quite powerful in and of itself.

Insaniac99

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« Reply #10 on: <03-17-14/1547:27> »
Okay, so if you have other gear on you, you could set it up passive like Novacrane mentions, but using active and blocking visual like Xenon is the default.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #11 on: <03-17-14/1703:32> »
I don't know that I'd call it "default."  The default setting for it is what you and your GM talk about.  Personally, I'd run passive by default and let it overlay my vision.  Kind of like AR. 
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The Bald Man

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« Reply #12 on: <03-17-14/1729:43> »
That said, keep in mind that both trodes and motion sensors use ultrasound tech to work in SR. This actually makes passive mode quite powerful in and of itself.

Trodes use ultrasound?

martinchaen

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« Reply #13 on: <03-17-14/1918:40> »
Grrr @ Rules Designers for mixing the ultrasound and sonar terms.

At least SR4 had the right distinction between ultrasound, radar, and ultrawideband radar...

WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #14 on: <03-18-14/1056:38> »
Trodes use ultrasound?
It's mentioned in their description. "Available as a headband, net, or full-on cap, this electrode-and-ultrasound net gives you a direct neural interface."

Quote
Okay, so if you have other gear on you, you could set it up passive like Novacrane mentions, but using active and blocking visual like Xenon is the default.
I don't think your own gear would do much good. On passive it would pick up what is being emitted by other sources, so the most useful data would probably be the exact locations of other gear. You'd probably get some partial maps of the surrounding area. The other gear is very focused and unlikely to emit wide enough to get a full map.

So, if someone is wearing trodes, you'd get the exact location of the trodes, and maybe a little surrounding area, but it probably won't give you a full map like active mode would. Similarly, you'd probably get a motion detector and it's beam path, but probably not a wide map of the area.