[Manchu]

How do you sell Shadowrun to potential players that don't go for the fantasy/cyberpunk crossover?

I've found this to be a very deep-seated prejudice among some gamers, although I don't quite get why. Has anyone else found Shadowrun to be the Mamite of RPG settings? How have people dealt with this mysterious aesthetic baggage?

Personally, I see the melange as a feature rather than a glitch. But I've had trouble convincing the critics. Best I can think of now is to get them to play the new game but that's an uphill battle in itself.

[brasso]

Horse for courses really, I've never really tried to persuade folks to play something they don't like.

I previously reffed alot of CP2020 and enjoyed it, as it was closer to the mainstream CP novels (Gibson, etc). Including magic especially changes the setting quite drastically, so this may be something to do with resistance to the setting.

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, it's just different. In terms of roleplaying, it's not such a big deal, when you look at all the strangeness that goes on in various RPGs (we're currently playing Deadlands Noire, Rifts and Hunter as well as Shadowrun 5e). But maybe it takes a little getting used to.

[Manchu]

To clarify, I'm not talking about folks who have tried Shadowrun over the years and concluded they don't like it. I'm talking about folks who pre-judge and reject Shadowrun as just "D&D mushed together with CP2020." Like a peanut butter and Tabasco sandwich or something.

I'm looking for advice on getting folks past that prejudice.

[Noble Drake]

I have experienced plenty of players out there that think they know they won't like some game or another based on what (very little, in most cases) they "know" about the game... never actually Shadowrun though.

Despite me not meeting anyone not into the cyberpunk/fantasy cross-over... which I have to take an aside about here: What we now call "fantasy" originates in the same fictional works as what we now call "science fiction", and the only difference between the two is the degree to which the fantastical has been explained. For example, a terrible winged beast with a man-like face, cruel intelligence, and a tail capable of flinging sharp barbs at quite a distance is either explained as being some species of beast native to a "non-earth" world or another dimension and it is "sci-fi", but if you say "yeah, it's a manticore just like in myth" then all of a sudden it is "fantasy."

"fantasy" is "sci-fi" in which most people don't know the answers to the questions of the world, and "sci-fi" is just "fantasy" in which a lot of the mysteries have already been investigated, researched, and solved.

...anyway, back on track:

When a person has preconceptions about a game that I like and would like to run for them, I just have them talk about them with me - and it is as simple as saying "I'd like to understand why you apprehensive about giving this game a try," and listening to their reasons. The key is to offer solutions to any solvable problems, and correct any misinformation they might have received, without being too pushy or making it sound like you think their opinion is stupid.

All the players I have ever met (rough count being about 180) have had some game(s) that they don't like for one reason or another, and in all but 2 cases I have managed to get them to at least try that game out again (because every game is different from GM to GM) - the 2 cases both actual regard Vampire: the Requiem: 1 guy refused to play it because he was hard-core into Vampire: the Masquerade and was just plain not going to try out any other Vampire game no matter what I said, and the 2nd guy had an extremely terrible experience with Vampire games before he ever met me and is afraid of any unenjoyable situation to the point that he and I once had a minor disagreement and he immediately left my house and I didn't see him for 2 years.... so I am pretty sure you'll have a good chance of getting anyone to try Shadowrun if you ask them to give it a shot after understanding what they don't think they'll like about it.

[Manchu]

I don't agree that Sci-fi is just fantasy where magic has been "figured out," or the other way round. To me, they are pretty distinct genres that rely on very different sets of tropes. This actually gets to the heart of the problem I've encountered. Shadowrun does not equate magic with tech but rather makes room for both. Cyberpunk is about losing and finding humanity through and amid technology. Shadowrun adds magic, specifically mysticism, into the mix. That, to my mind, radically disorients the traditional cyberpunk themes about the relationship between human will and identity. Along comes magic and the hard realities of the gritty, neon-lit future are all called into question. The argument I have heard a thousand times goes "get that magic away from my cyberpunk" as opposed to "get that cyberpunk away from my magic."

[Michael Chandra]

"Take everything you know about D&D, and toss it out. It's a paranoid dystopian society where corporations rule and pay you to do their dirty work." That's honestly as far as I'd go. And the D&D note is really important, and I'd explain if they ask: Forget about looting everything, about getting magical items, about levelling, about races being evil, about living in a world of good and evil.

[Kincaid]

Sit down with them and watch Ronin.  If they don't like the movie, they aren't going to like Shadowrun.  If they do, they will.

[firebug]

Or Leverage.  That's prettymuch what a team can be doing in Shadowrun.

Really, Shadowrun's strong point is it's setting.  Not the genre or it's mechanics.  The shining star is its setting.

Tell them about the completely awesome stuff that happens.  Tell them about how Chicago go overrun by terrifying insect spirits that fuse with humans to give birth to monstrosities.  Tell them how there was a dragon who was almost president, until he mysteriously died on his inauguration.  Say how the malicious AI named Deus captured the entirety of the Renraku Arcology and created Otaku, then tried to gain ultimate power, but was stopped and as a result crashed the entire internet.  Tell them that as of right now there is a mysterious virus known as SYBIL that's causing people with nanomachines inside them to start having multiple personalities, some of which claim to people who died or disappeared long ago...

Tell them about the terrors of Shedim, or the disturbing nature of the experiments that can only be called "cyber zombies".  Tell them about HMHVV, and how it's the world's most infectious disease, and so much as being in the same room with a ghoul for too long can turn you into a blind, magically-aware creature who absolutely must eat metahuman meat to survive.

There is so goddamn much to Shadowrun.  So introduce them to the setting, as opposed to the genre.

[Lethal Joke]

Or Leverage.  That's prettymuch what a team can be doing in Shadowrun.

Really, Shadowrun's strong point is it's setting.  Not the genre or it's mechanics.  The shining star is its setting.

Tell them about the completely awesome stuff that happens.  Tell them about how Chicago go overrun by terrifying insect spirits that fuse with humans to give birth to monstrosities.  Tell them how there was a dragon who was almost president, until he mysteriously died on his inauguration.  Say how the malicious AI named Deus captured the entirety of the Renraku Arcology and created Otaku, then tried to gain ultimate power, but was stopped and as a result crashed the entire internet.  Tell them that as of right now there is a mysterious virus known as SYBIL that's causing people with nanomachines inside them to start having multiple personalities, some of which claim to people who died or disappeared long ago...

Tell them about the terrors of Shedim, or the disturbing nature of the experiments that can only be called "cyber zombies".  Tell them about HMHVV, and how it's the world's most infectious disease, and so much as being in the same room with a ghoul for too long can turn you into a blind, magically-aware creature who absolutely must eat metahuman meat to survive.

There is so goddamn much to Shadowrun.  So introduce them to the setting, as opposed to the genre.

Someone else watches Leverage!

That's actually how I sold one of my players on Shadowrun. Watched an episode during lunch when he was over and said; "It's like that, but with magic, guns, and the evil corporation's security will actually shoot back."
It worked; he proceeded to create a decker.

[PittsburghRPGA]

Or Leverage.  That's prettymuch what a team can be doing in Shadowrun.

Someone else watches Leverage!

That's actually how I sold one of my players on Shadowrun. Watched an episode during lunch when he was over and said; "It's like that, but with magic, guns, and the evil corporation's security will actually shoot back."
It worked; he proceeded to create a decker.

I'm pretty sure a bunch of us watch Leverage.  I was sad to see it end though I understand why it had to. 

[MortimerBane]

How to sell Shadowrun to Fantasy purists.  That's a great question.  I use the following:  1)  Level-less character progression, "Dude, there are NO levels in Shadowrun".  2)  No spells per level, "Mage's are kinda the same as in D&D, but oh yeah you can cast Fireball as many times as you like".  3)  Can still play a fantasy style character.  Melee-only, and pure casters are perfectly viable "classes" to play in Shadowrun, so you can still play your Elf Thief/Mage.  4)  Shadowrun IS a fantasy game... mage's, dragons, orc and elves.  It's just a cyberpunk game too.  And lastly, 5)  The game system is amazing and unlike anything else in the rpg world.  It's truly a unique was of gaming, and a refreshing change from the usually D20 copycat fantasy RPG.

I really push the last one... remember that every gamer is at least slightly pissed off at the makers of their fav games for one thing of another.