[Leevizer]

So, my next run is going to have the players make a nearly suicidical run against Aztechnology, paid for by ARES in Seattle.

The Johnson obviously doesn't want to spend too much money on a group of deniable assets, but doesn't want the players to fail either. The pay will be something between 5-12 K per player, depending on how much they ask for and how well they negotiate.

Before the run, though, I'm thinking of letting the players ask for stuff from Johnson along the lines of "Send me a list of what you need, I'll see what I can do and will arrange a drop.". Explosives, armour, some high-availability stuff the players wouldn't usually have access to and such.

Now, should I just look at the money these items will cost or think of the usefulness? I mean, If the mage doesn't need much, he'll just ask for full combat armour and be done with it. Then again the weapon specialists could have a field day with assault cannons or missile launchers or augmentations. Heck, the players might even try to get themselves Nightwings, a Northrup wasp or a damn ARES venture for all I know.

So, what do you guys suggest? I was thinking that obviously anything they'd want would either be directly from ARES or be a version made by ARES (for example if they ask for an assault cannon, they'll get the Ares Vigorous, no matter what they specifically ask for)

Also, what should I tell the players as a GM and what should I tell them as Ms. johnson? The Johnson obviously has limits to her resources and limits of tolerance, but how clearly should I define them? And after the negotiations, what should I tell them as a GM? "Here's the Run and Gun book, I'll see you in an hour"?

Or should I come up with some alternative way? ARES rent-a-gun? A firewatch team will come and "persuade" them to relinquish them of the items? In the case of an Ares Venture, for example, that'd be fairly understandable, though.

Have you guys had experience on this kind of thing? What did you do and how did you handle it?

[SlowDeck]

Have the Johnson tell them they need to justify the more outlandish requests. Like if they ask for a GMC Banshee, a Thunderstrike, 500 rounds of gauss cannon ammo, a custom speaker system, and a copy a certain AC/DC song... The Johnson might question why.

[emsquared]

At a certain point, there's the question of why is Johnson hiring them if they don't have anything near the adequate gear (and therefore, possibly not the experience/mettle) necessary to do the job?

That said, our last arc, Johnson sent the group into Columbia for a series of runs (headed towards Cali, passing within maybe 50km of Bogota, at the time of Storm Front) and as the timeline was rather short - they were offered the job, accepted, were taken to an arco and briefed a little more then got on a sub-orbital flight to the pacific all within a couple hours - Johnson afforded them pretty much anything in the neighborhood of 5 - 10K each/Availability 16 max (wholesale prices, so @ ~60% of book cost), depending on what it would do for the mission. I think only two guys even actually needed something (our hacker/rigger got a drone as he couldn't bring his, and our sammy just got loaded up on ammo/nades/supplies stuff), the other three didn't even take anything (one factor may have been that a portion of the cost was still going to come out of their pay, but still they could have gotten gear for like 25 - 33% MSRP).

So, yeah, that's my advice, don't write a blank check - set upper cost/Availability boundaries, and if they do "order" something, have them pay something for it. TINSTAAFL - and that's more true in Running than anywhere.

Also worth noting, the overall pay was 50K ea. to accomplish 3 primary objectives while in Columbia, anyone who lived could divide up the pay of anyone who didn't. So the gear offer was ~ 10% of pay.

[Leevizer]

At a certain point, there's the question of why is Johnson hiring them if they don't have anything near the adequate gear (and therefore, possibly not the experience/mettle) necessary to do the job?

I remember a discussion once long ago about this EXACT same topic. It was pointed out that the Johnson might believe the group to achieve the objective on their own ways, since a lot of runs can be done in a lot of different ways. Will they try to get dropped onto the roof of the building? Use grapple guns from the neighbouring building? Don disguises and try to walk through the front door? Cause a distraction and sneak in?

Which is one reason why I want to discuss on this topic, since I don't want to tell the players outright that "you'll get a plane" since that's just one of the options that COULD be thought of. And even if I prepare for five eventualities, the players will propably find a sixth and do that.

That said, our last arc, Johnson sent the group into Columbia for a series of runs (headed towards Cali, passing within maybe 50km of Bogota, at the time of Storm Front) and as the timeline was rather short - they were offered the job, accepted, were taken to an arco and briefed a little more then got on a sub-orbital flight to the pacific all within a couple hours - Johnson afforded them pretty much anything in the neighborhood of 5 - 10K each/Availability 16 max (wholesale prices, so @ ~60% of book cost), depending on what it would do for the mission. I think only two guys even actually needed something (our hacker/rigger got a drone as he couldn't bring his, and our sammy just got loaded up on ammo/nades/supplies stuff), the other three didn't even take anything (one factor may have been that a portion of the cost was still going to come out of their pay, but still they could have gotten gear for like 25 - 33% MSRP).

So, yeah, that's my advice, don't write a blank check - set upper cost/Availability boundaries, and if they do "order" something, have them pay something for it. TINSTAAFL - and that's more true in Running than anywhere.

Did the group receive the information on the availabilities and the money beforehand? Straight numbers or an idea, and did they know of this discount they were getting?

I was thinking in the same lines of giving them a discount. As in, the Corps make tons of... Say, combat armour. And everything else. Giving five suits of armor away wouldn't really cost that much for them, if I'm not mistaken?

Also worth noting, the overall pay was 50K ea. to accomplish 3 primary objectives while in Columbia, anyone who lived could divide up the pay of anyone who didn't. So the gear offer was ~ 10% of pay.

50K ea. meaning that the total pay was something like 250K, if I understood correctly that you had five runners?

[Prodigy]

Soooo... One point to be made here. If Ares is hiring these guys as deniable assets who all may die, why would Ares load them up with Ares-made products?

If I were the Johnson, I would buy them non-Ares products so that when they do die there is not a suspicion toward my company. Hell, I would even provide them Fake SINs that identify them as S-K Prime. It's called running a False Flag Operation.

[Leevizer]

Soooo... One point to be made here. If Ares is hiring these guys as deniable assets who all may die, why would Ares load them up with Ares-made products?

If I were the Johnson, I would buy them non-Ares products so that when they do die there is not a suspicion toward my company. Hell, I would even provide them Fake SINs that identify them as S-K Prime. It's called running a False Flag Operation.

That's a good point. That Fake SIN idea especially is interesting, maybe I should hint at that for my players? Actually, that's a great idea. Give the players Good fake sins and suits of S-K armour. The sins would be pretty burned after the run, but it's still an interesting idea.

Then again, since they are deniable assets it won't really matter even if they are wearing some high-profile and quality ARES gear. The corp will just publish a news feed about their "weapons shipment" being attacked a week ago which they will tell the public if questions arise. The reason they didn't tell when it happened? They were tracking the team doing this and didn't want to alert them that they were on the trail, but in an "unfortunate accident" they attacked an Aztechnology facility blah blah. Condolences to everyone who got harmed.

If we think of the Johnson's perspective, though. Getting five suits of Ares Firewatch-grade combat armour with RFID and other things, such as visible logos removed is going to be a hell of a lot faster and cheaper than trying to get a suit of some other combat armour? I think we're talking about production cost compared to the task of negotiating and then buying the armour?

Also, it -IS- a fact that Ares makes the best weapons and armour, so it's no wonder a team would be using them heavily. Just saying~

[Xzylvador]

So as not to break balance after the run:
You could install nanites, self-destruct mechanisms or auto-lock mechanisms which trigger after a certain amount of time or when a signal is sent; of course, players may try to hack them, but that's part of the game.

Or, here's a silly suggestion: Just have the Johnson tell them he expects all of it back in storage container 41-86B by midnight the next. It's not too far-fetched, either they want to recuperate part of the investment or they may just want to be sure that all the evidence linking back to them is gotten rid of. (And, if you're as much an evil GM as I am, use it later to coerce the players into doing some more work for them... or do they really want to explain in court why their DNA is all over a gun that's been used to kill a bunch of Azzies during a raid on their operations?)



As for what they can ask for, it's all up to you; though I have to say I don't agree that all of it should be made by Ares or its direct subsidiaries: that's a trail leading back to them. Ares has undoubtedly got lots of connections in black weapon markets; that seems like a much more likely source of supplies for deniable operations.
(Edit: okay, someone else pointed this out while I was writing this! Damned ninja's!)
This also lets you handle what they can ask for, if you want a nuke to be available on the black market, it just might be. Or it could just be that their local contact for assault cannons got busted just last, so sorry, can't handle that.

[Leevizer]

So as not to break balance after the run:
You could install nanites, self-destruct mechanisms or auto-lock mechanisms which trigger after a certain amount of time or when a signal is sent; of course, players may try to hack them, but that's part of the game.

Or, here's a silly suggestion: Just have the Johnson tell them he expects all of it back in storage container 41-86B by midnight the next. It's not too far-fetched, either they want to recuperate part of the investment or they may just want to be sure that all the evidence linking back to them is gotten rid of. (And, if you're as much an evil GM as I am, use it later to coerce the players into doing some more work for them... or do they really want to explain in court why their DNA is all over a gun that's been used to kill a bunch of Azzies during a raid on their operations?)

This run is going to come biting them in the ass a few runs later, don't worry about that . This run will cost Aztech millions of nuyen and propably a highly skilled researcher or two so they'll be hell-bent on getting the runners.

That nanite, self-destruct and such methods are good, but WHY would a Johnson do that compared to your next suggestion? "Oh, hey, we gave those people weapons and ammo worth 70 K. And it'll blow up after they're done so that nobody can use them again." Combining the auto-lockdown and the pickup method would make sense, though.

Your next suggestion is amazing, though what if I don't want the players handing everything back? Such as the suits of combat armour or a rocket launcher? I don't think the Corp would make an on-case-basis of the merchandise? Of course they could negotiate about that after the run before returning everything? Not that I think the Johnson might care much but if they do a good enough job, the Johnson might agree to lose a few items worth of paperwork?

As for what they can ask for, it's all up to you; though I have to say I don't agree that all of it should be made by Ares or its direct subsidiaries: that's a trail leading back to them. Ares has undoubtedly got lots of connections in black weapon markets; that seems like a much more likely source of supplies for deniable operations.
(Edit: okay, someone else pointed this out while I was writing this! Damned ninja's!)
This also lets you handle what they can ask for, if you want a nuke to be available on the black market, it just might be. Or it could just be that their local contact for assault cannons got busted just last, so sorry, can't handle that.

True, maybe having EVERYTHING made by Ares would be too much. I was just thinking that if there are options, the Johnson would go with Ares. "They want a Panther, let's give them the Rigorous".


Also, DNA in guns? Is there a single runner who isn't wearing gloves or otherwise trying to not leave fingerprints?

[Xzylvador]

...what if I don't want the players handing everything back? Such as the suits of combat armour or a rocket launcher? I don't think the Corp would make an on-case-basis of the merchandise? Of course they could negotiate about that after the run before returning everything? Not that I think the Johnson might care much but if they do a good enough job, the Johnson might agree to lose a few items worth of paperwork?

Could also be handled by the 'get some stuff from black markets, some other stuff from our own warehouses'. The stuff he managed to acquire from black markets, the players can keep. Items that can be traced back to Ares (even if it's deniable "because our logs clearly label these items as stolen 3 weeks ago") will be reclaimed.
Easy in-game way of fixing these issues without breaking the story.

And yeah, if need be and the Johnson has reasons for wanting to be on good terms with the 'runners, things can always be arranged; "Within reason, of course. Our accountants always get a little bit nervous when things go missing."


As for the DNA: Meh, I don't usually go too far in this, but I can easily imagine a multi-trillion corporation in the year 207x to be able to get enough from a skin flake or a drop of sweat. Heck, even the oil from your skin that got on the glove when you put them on (how many layers of gloves are you wearing?) and transferred to the gun or even a single bullet in its magazine could be enough.
Again, I don't usually go that far because it would make 'running practically impossible; but whatever fits the story.

[emsquared]

Did the group receive the information on the availabilities and the money beforehand? Straight numbers or an idea, and did they know of this discount they were getting?

I was thinking in the same lines of giving them a discount. As in, the Corps make tons of... Say, combat armour. And everything else. Giving five suits of armor away wouldn't really cost that much for them, if I'm not mistaken?

No, they weren't given the hard-limits. They would ask "can we get this?" and it would be, "sorry, no. Do more with less." They did know about the discount prices, and no, the gear was not corp-branded.

50K ea. meaning that the total pay was something like 250K, if I understood correctly that you had five runners?

Correct. Paid upon the completion of three main objectives that were to encompass 8 sessions or so.

[Vidnaut]

our sammy just got loaded up on ammo/nades/supplies stuff), the other three didn't even take anything (one factor may have been that a portion of the cost was still going to come out of their pay, but still they could have gotten gear for like 25 - 33% MSRP).

Don't really understand that part since ammunition/grenades are pretty much a currency in and of themselves in the Shadows alongside nuyen and getting a discount with no strings attached for the former is a fairly good deal regardless of if you're a street sam or not.  It's just like money: "Bullets don't have owners, only spenders."  Worst-case scenario is they pack-mule it for the sammy and have him owe them later.