[RHat]

RHat
Not really; toxins are rarely that deadly, unless the mooks are throwing around Seven7 as if it was candy...

Gasses can very easily be deployed by other means.

And if you have to choose between the mask and the standard helmet, you would NEVER choose the standard helmet - the mask is Just Better.  Not really a choice to be made, and that's a bad thing.

[Kincaid]

RHat
Not really; toxins are rarely that deadly, unless the mooks are throwing around Seven7 as if it was candy...

Besides, it comes with a minimum investment of 8000¥.

And Xenon; you're free to houserule that option, of course.
I prefer to give the users a more polarized choice. At my table, you either take the helmet, the ballistic mask, OR the full helmet (or one of it's mil-spec/security variants); no cherry picking multiple items and gaining all or most benefits.

Yeah, as a GM I want my players to make meaningful choices, not just take d) all of the above.

[Triskavanski]

I happen to wear a ballistic mask and helmet quite often when I go Airsofting. Granted, neither of them are on the level of heavy military armor made in 2075. But still.. wearing just a helmet leaves my eyes and face open to getting shot. Wearing just the face mask, leaves the rest of my head open to getting shot.

Now someone brings the full helmet is only a +3.

Full body armor is only a 15 armor value
Sleeping Tiger is 13.

[martinchaen]

Apples and oranges, Trisk.

Why do modern day soldiers wear a helmet? They're certainly not bullet proof, even against small caliber rounds. Kevlar helmets are "bullet resistant", meaning they might protect your noggin' from a stray round or a ricochet, and they will protect you from a lot of fragmentation-based weaponry.

Airsoft is, as you say, not even comparable to military grade armor, which is why I'm loathe to allow a ballistic mask to stack with a helmet such as the commercially available (availability rating of -) Urban Explorer Helmet.

Your comparison of Full Body Armor and the Sleeping Tiger armor does not hold up when you use it as a subsequent comparison to the issue of Ballistic Mask+Helmet vs Full Helmet. Both Full Body Armor and Sleeping Tiger are high-end grade armor (evidenced by high cost and/or availability), whereas Ballistic Masks and Helmets are low-end items.

Comparing like for like is the only viable option as I see it.

Bottom line; this is up to the GM, because I certainly can't find any rules in the book preventing a player from putting on two pieces of headware.

[SlowDeck]

Why do modern day soldiers wear a helmet? They're certainly not bullet proof, even against small caliber rounds. Kevlar helmets are "bullet resistant", meaning they might protect your noggin' from a stray round or a ricochet, and they will protect you from a lot of fragmentation-based weaponry.

IIRC, they're not even bullet-resistant. From what I remember, last few tests of kevlar helmets using 9mm pistols had the pistol penetrate every time. Kevlar helmets are, if I am remembering my information correctly, actually intended to protect against glancing blows and land mines or grenades (a soldier is supposed to drop to the ground with their helmet facing towards the mine/grenade).

[Kincaid]

Why do modern day soldiers wear a helmet? They're certainly not bullet proof, even against small caliber rounds. Kevlar helmets are "bullet resistant", meaning they might protect your noggin' from a stray round or a ricochet, and they will protect you from a lot of fragmentation-based weaponry.

IIRC, they're not even bullet-resistant. From what I remember, last few tests of kevlar helmets using 9mm pistols had the pistol penetrate every time. Kevlar helmets are, if I am remembering my information correctly, actually intended to protect against glancing blows and land mines or grenades (a soldier is supposed to drop to the ground with their helmet facing towards the mine/grenade).

Back in the day....(re: 1990s) wearing a PASGT sucked.  It varied quite a bit, but many operators wore bicycle helmets.  The idea wasn't to avoid getting shot in the head (helmets don't really help with that), the idea was to not bump your head running into a room or during a rough landing.  The helmets nowadays are a better middle ground, but the general idea remains the same.  Bumps and lacerations?  Sure.  Square on penetration?  No.

[martinchaen]

During my service, I wore one of those snowboarding/mountain climbing safety helmets quite often; Kincaid, you think wearing a PASGT sucked while walking, try wearing one while skydiving

[Xenon]

And Xenon; you're free to houserule that option, of course.

At my table we don't have ballistic masks to begin with

[SlowDeck]

Martin, you have my apology; I just reread your post and noticed you addressed everything I said. I should have read your post more carefully the first time.

[WellsIDidIt]

IIRC, they're not even bullet-resistant. From what I remember, last few tests of kevlar helmets using 9mm pistols had the pistol penetrate every time. Kevlar helmets are, if I am remembering my information correctly, actually intended to protect against glancing blows and land mines or grenades (a soldier is supposed to drop to the ground with their helmet facing towards the mine/grenade).

I don't know much about the older helmets, but the ACH that started being fielded about eight years ago is tested at IIIA and can reliably stop the vast majority of 9mm rounds and even tested favorably against some magnum loads. Getting hit still causes damage (the energy will often cause neck injury for example), but it's much better against penetration than previous helmets.

IIIA armor is useless against rifle rounds (.22 LR won't penetrate, but .17 HMR often will as will any military rifle round) and specific handgun rounds ( 5.7 can reliably penetrate with the right loads, .50 GI and AE zip right through, .500 S&W might as well be rifle round for all the protection offered). I get to shoot at old vests pretty often (our range owner gets a lot of used vests for us to test shoot at, he's even gotten a damaged MSA version of the ACH before), and 9mm rounds rarely penetrate unless you've already damaged the area. One of our CCW Instructors uses them to teach people about calibers.

[JackVII]

Kincaid, you think wearing a PASGT sucked while walking, try wearing one while skydiving

I didn't mind wearing the helmet on jumps. Now, doing the full-equipment bull shit sucked, waddling around. Even worse when you had to do it with the rifle strapped on.

[martinchaen]

Really, JackVII? You're a better man than I in that case then, or at least a better mold; I hated those old frakkin' kevlar cans, they never sat right on my head and kept sliding down in the front, and they always seemed to get in the way of some damned thing or another. I also thought they were pretty heavy for a helmet, but I joined with a background in civilian skydiving.

Once we deployed in '02, though, we rarely used them except for training and on base in-country, though; since I was ISTAR I swapped mine (it did not pass-go, heh) for a civilian version skydiver helmet (Gemtex or something like that), at least for the drops that didn't require oxygen.

My absolute worst experience with the pass-get was during a training jump where the strap from my rifle soft case got caught on the chinstrap of the helmet; that was an... interesting... landing for sure.


Wells
You go right ahead and trust your noggin' to a helmet when facing small-arms fire, be my guest...

[Namikaze]

IMO, the only reason to stack a ballistic mask and a helmet is for the extra capacity.  That said, it sounds like an attempt to cheeseball the system, so I'd make the setup identical to a full helmet, with the same capacity, armor bonus, and cost.

[CanRay]

Gasses can very easily be deployed by other means.

"MUNGO!  DEAR GHOST!!!  WHAT DID YOU EAT???"