[BetaCAV]

Slaving isn't needed to share feeds.

Ah, thank you.  I wasn't sure if it was, and that lends more pondering on my part as to why even the lowest group of grunts wouldn't keep tabs on one another.

Which is why they have radios (aka comlinks)... and usually the cheapest ones, at that. Most "guards" are just radio operators, who may or may not be armed. Their primary function is to see trouble coming, and communicate that regardless of whether "There are armed people skulking in the parking lot", or "I'm shot".
This frees up more resources for the ready response force, whose job is dealing with any situation a stun baton and contacting someone's  supervisor (about multiple boxes of office supplies being carried out through a fire door, after hours) can't solve.

[Namikaze]

Which is why they have radios (aka comlinks)... and usually the cheapest ones, at that.

Not to distract from your point, but radios and commlinks aren't the same things.  Radios would be micro-transceivers, which are awesome and cheap as hell.  Plus, they can communicate wirelessly without needing to have wireless active.

[Furious Trope]

I've been assuming most competent enemies do this at some level since SR4.

Burner commlinks and micro-transceivers are cheap. And the advantage of coordination well outweighs the expense.

The difference is a matter of degrees. Unorganized gangers rely on loud noises and improvised flares. Organized ones get burners and more disciplined radio skills.

The low end of corp/rent-a-cop security are little better than the organized gangs, but get the addition of more tech support (Cameras, maybe a spider if they're lucky).

And of course, things ratchet up quickly from there up to however much I think the corp in question can afford/would spend. I usually have coat/potential RoI be the main thing keeping corps from making a location insanely secure.

PI-Tac systems fall under the middle of the spectrum. They're not really used for average guards, not only because of cost, but also because of the drone-inclusive 6-9 team member limit. Big sites are just require too much manpower for that to be really effective.

Slap em on the reserve force/HRT.

[firebug]

Which is why they have radios (aka comlinks)... and usually the cheapest ones, at that.

Not to distract from your point, but radios and commlinks aren't the same things.  Radios would be micro-transceivers, which are awesome and cheap as hell.  Plus, they can communicate wirelessly without needing to have wireless active.

Radio waves are part of the matrix.  Radio detonators in Run & Gun are just wireless detonators and even has rules for setting up a disposable commlink as one.  If that doesn't mean radios and commlinks are functionally the same, I don't know what does.

[martinchaen]

Which is why they have radios (aka comlinks)... and usually the cheapest ones, at that.

Not to distract from your point, but radios and commlinks aren't the same things.  Radios would be micro-transceivers, which are awesome and cheap as hell.  Plus, they can communicate wirelessly without needing to have wireless active.

Radio waves are part of the matrix.  Radio detonators in Run & Gun are just wireless detonators and even has rules for setting up a disposable commlink as one.  If that doesn't mean radios and commlinks are functionally the same, I don't know what does.

Not to mention that modern day wireless tech IS radio tech; 2.4GHz and 5GHz wavelengths, currently.

[MortimerBane]

So I'm thinking that the cost of the Pi-Tac is way too high.  Thoughts?

[SlowDeck]

I'm thinking it's about right. It seems more intended for military and mercenary groups, and the price range is about right for squad-level equipment for them.

[firebug]

So I'm thinking that the cost of the Pi-Tac is way too high.  Thoughts?

Without a doubt...  Even from a purely NPC perspective, it is way too costly for a few reasons...  And this is for CorpSec, any military group prettymuch has infinite money as far as gameplay is concerned.  Only works for six people at a time, doesn't provide many more benefits beyond what normal wireless communication provides, and requires a five-hundred-thousand nuyen piece of equipment to be vulnerable and a primary target to bricking to anyone infiltrating the area.  In order to make it secure, they would also need to hire more matrix security experts, possibly one for each team of six, which would ramp up the effective cost even more now.

[RHat]

I'm thinking it's about right. It seems more intended for military and mercenary groups, and the price range is about right for squad-level equipment for them.

With the exception of the lowest-rating one, which is supposedly used by civilians for paintball?

[SlowDeck]

No, even that one is pretty fairly priced (it mentions combat brawl leagues using the set as well), and even then it's obviously intended for tactical squad usage where a decker isn't necessarily available. Half a million isn't unreasonable for such a system.

A team hacker can do a great job replicating it, but even then replicating all of the features of the level 1 PI-Tac will probably come in at half a million (the majority of the cost being the cyberdeck) for the entire team. The PI-Tac itself is slightly more expensive than a decker doing the job personally, but that's to be expected when the corp's tech is doing the work for you. So it maintains the advantage deckers have in that they can do it cheaper and can also contribute far more to the team, but offers the same advantages of the decker's coordination options for groups that might not have one (such as, probably, a lot of HRT teams).

So, I don't see a reason why shadowrunners would need this tech, but I can't say it's overpriced for what it does.

[Michael Chandra]

Out of curiosity, did Pi-Tac ever mention the need to be in the matrix? If we follow Aaron's ruling, it wouldn't be jammable, and it might not even be hackable due to communicating on its own frequencies and not using the matrix directly.

By the way, there's a few things to keep in mind regarding the price:
- Shadowrunners likely will get it through other means at a discount.
- Big companies would just have a thousand or more made at 10% the cost.

[firebug]

The benefits of using PI-Tac are substantial, but gamemasters should remember that PI-Tac is wireless by nature, which makes it a target for hackers.

Even without that, if it were a "wireless but not hackable" thing I would scream.  I also still stand firmly that a microtransceiver does not use magic to avoid being on the matrix (as I also stated earlier, radio waves are the matrix, too).

I wish it was just software again, because I really, really thought having a TM thread a TacNet was a really cool thing.  Not terribly effective, but totally awesome.  And a pirate PI-Tac would probably be interesting if only because of the design all the AROs would have instead of the streamlined-and-efficient corporate/military usage.

[Michael Chandra]

Given how Microtransceivers apparently don't need to be 'wireless' to communicate, but are VERY limited in what they can transmit and receive, I'm willing to give them a pass. Sure, they can get snooped, but they wouldn't be hackable.

[firebug]

A team hacker can do a great job replicating it, but even then replicating all of the features of the level 1 PI-Tac will probably come in at half a million (the majority of the cost being the cyberdeck) for the entire team. The PI-Tac itself is slightly more expensive than a decker doing the job personally, but that's to be expected when the corp's tech is doing the work for you.

You don't need a decker to replicate it.  If your team has biomonitors, commlinks, and weapons (not even smartguns) then you can do everything it offers save for the GPS tracking and perception bonus.  Keep in mind, you can even use a commlink to Trace Icon.  It uses the Computer skill, is a Data Processing action, and you can simply use Invite Mark to give the team leader (or whomever is going to make this test).  They can default, and only need one hit (so just 4 or 5 INT is all that's needed) because likely, the other players can just choose not to resist.  Even if the GM says no to this, GPS positioning is not absolutely necessary.

[Michael Chandra]

Of course a big downside to that setup is that you're employing 1 more device per person, making it harder  to protect everything by slaving. (A big question is whether a gun with weapon commlink and smartgun counts as 1 device for a PAN.)

And yes, no resistance roll required. Those are only for illegal actions, not for legit users.