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why cant comlinks run common cyberprograms?

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Joush

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« Reply #30 on: <05-16-14/2155:29> »
You can still do pretty much anything you can do with a modern smartphone with your commlink - take and send photos, videos, and voice recordings, search for data or webpages, map a route, engage in social media, play games (in AR ,or VR with a simsense module on your commlink). You just can't treat that smartphone as if it's a computer loaded with Photoshop, run agents, etc.
Exactly. whilst i can write a 500 page report on my smartphone, i can do it a damn site better on my computer.
My phone has a word processor, a browser + a camera with a very basic editing suite, my computer's dedicated programs give me much more power and ability to create what i want to create, and see what I want to see.

Decks are much more versatile and the programs like Editor are the equivalent step up from the default nokia text editor to a fully fledged office productivity suite complete with photoshop and a high end professional video editing suite as well.

At this point you just have to give up and ignore the plot hole that 3 years ago in setting comlinks were the only computer device most people needed and possessed a tremendous amount of processing power. (Enough, notably, to run the most powerful editing software). Really, even now a high end smartphone has plenty of power to run a full featured office software set, the only reason not to use it like that is a matter of interface that sort of falls away when you get into neural interfaces.

The whole setting was warped to make Deckers more distinct again.

SlowDeck

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« Reply #31 on: <05-16-14/2157:59> »
You can still do pretty much anything you can do with a modern smartphone with your commlink - take and send photos, videos, and voice recordings, search for data or webpages, map a route, engage in social media, play games (in AR ,or VR with a simsense module on your commlink). You just can't treat that smartphone as if it's a computer loaded with Photoshop, run agents, etc.
Exactly. whilst i can write a 500 page report on my smartphone, i can do it a damn site better on my computer.
My phone has a word processor, a browser + a camera with a very basic editing suite, my computer's dedicated programs give me much more power and ability to create what i want to create, and see what I want to see.

Decks are much more versatile and the programs like Editor are the equivalent step up from the default nokia text editor to a fully fledged office productivity suite complete with photoshop and a high end professional video editing suite as well.

At this point you just have to give up and ignore the plot hole that 3 years ago in setting comlinks were the only computer device most people needed and possessed a tremendous amount of processing power. (Enough, notably, to run the most powerful editing software). Really, even now a high end smartphone has plenty of power to run a full featured office software set, the only reason not to use it like that is a matter of interface that sort of falls away when you get into neural interfaces.

The whole setting was warped to make Deckers more distinct again.

No plot hole. Storm Front deals with the shift nicely.
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Senko

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« Reply #32 on: <05-16-14/2258:53> »
I don't suppose I could get a summary of exactly HOW that book ties up these plot holes since I doubt I could find a copy here much less the time to read it. As aknowledged by Joush there's a huge mental disconnect between X years ago I can run office 365 on my comlink putting it up on my neural link and now suddenly I can't. THAT is my main issue here I'm not fighting to have a commlink run my power up program as one person claimed I'm fighting for a VALID reason I can use ingame to say ok yes I agree that seems odd but. If I do run a game when I have more spare time I can't really say "Here read this book then you'll understand."

SlowDeck

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« Reply #33 on: <05-16-14/2305:47> »
Basic summary:

Corporations were tired of all of the hackers, tired of the Matrix being free to use, and tired of not having control. So, one corporation rewrote all of the Matrix protocols and GOD declared it the new Matrix. Storm Front goes into how none of the programs from the old wireless Matrix work with the current one and how the hacking community had to rewrite all of their hacking software from the ground up (it's also somewhat implied that the need to rewrite all software wasn't limited to just the hacking software). It also goes into how the new wireless Matrix was intentionally designed to somewhat emulate the old wired Matrix.

And then, when the new Matrix went live, they rolled out automatic updates for all of the commlinks. So it's either not have any Matrix access at all, or use the current protocols.
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Senko

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« Reply #34 on: <05-17-14/0135:56> »
Ok that explains the shift to decks somewhat but it doesn't explain why a comlink that's identical to what it was before suddenly lost the ability to run a top end editing program as I'm sure a lot of people would like a bit of extra security (firewall program) ability to do work on their own time or for their own interests (editing program) etc. As I said I can see ruling out attack/sleeze but with the fluff I just can't think of an acceptable justification for why they can't run these things.

SlowDeck

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« Reply #35 on: <05-17-14/0141:58> »
It's a hardware issue.

When changing the communication protocols, you sometimes require more hardware to run the new protocols. And they stated the reason this was done was to deal with hackers; likely, the new protocols require hardware that commlinks don't have for hacking. That also explains why decks made a comeback.
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RHat

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« Reply #36 on: <05-17-14/0356:32> »
Ok that explains the shift to decks somewhat but it doesn't explain why a comlink that's identical to what it was before suddenly lost the ability to run a top end editing program

Because everything's running under a completely different environment - and thus the hardware requirements are different, as are the programs.

Or, looking at it another way - it's already running those programs, but the new cyberprograms are something else entirely and much more intensive.
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Aranador

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« Reply #37 on: <05-17-14/0442:08> »
OK - let me try one last time.

Commlinks can not run cyber programs because its the rules

The rules are not going to change (well - actually they almost certainly will if the passing of various editions have shown us anything - but - the rules are not going to change right at this moment!)

So instead, decide for yourself the fluff that suits the rules.  It is a chance for you to be creative and invent your own verisimilitude.  Use your powers for good !

ZeConster

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« Reply #38 on: <05-17-14/0810:20> »
And again, I really feel like I should point out that a Transys Avalon (which costs 5k) will have a Data Processing and Firewall of 6, which means a 5442 Hermes Chariot (which costs 123k) needs to use programs to perform better on those two aspects.

Triskavanski

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« Reply #39 on: <05-17-14/0831:18> »
I just find it dumb you need a thing that is both restricted and comes with illegal stuff, that really isn't any bigger or badder than the commlinks to be able to run a program that doesn't use Atttack/Sleeze and available to everyone, especially with things that most people would probably use a lot.

Its kinda like having a "Civilian" vehicle and a "Military" Vehicle, and going on about how Civilian vehicles cannot take the freeway because they don't have enough power. Despite the freeway being open for anyone.
Concepts are great, but implementation sucks. Why not improve it?

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Senko

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« Reply #40 on: <05-17-14/0842:10> »
That's been my problem with this whole issue Triskavanksi however thanks to Rhat's post I think I've figured out a fluff explanation that accounts for my problems and WORKS. Specifically coming at it from the other direction where rather than saying "Commlinks can't run programs because its the rules" and running into all the logical problems with that you instead can say "Commlinks ARE running these programs as standard because everyone wants them (or at least the legal common ones) however cyberdecks and to a lesser extent rigger consoles because of their specialized and restricted nature tend to come as a blank slate and you need to load the programs on yourself as its assumed the skilled programmer buying it will probably create his own set of programs rather than buy them." and they can't run the attack/sleaze features because those require special hardware just like you can't use a wireless connection with the correct card/antanea on a desktop.

The important difference being rather than saying their running A program but CAN'T run these programs your saying they're ALREADY running these programs and thus you would gain no benefit from your second copy of Office 365, Norton etc. This explains the problems I've been having . . .

1) Why are decks so much more expensive? Because of the specialized hardware you need to run attack/sleaze programs or jump your conciousness into a vehicle.
2) Why do the equivalent commlinks have better stats than the deck? Because those stats include the top end common programs that aren't standard on a deck.
3) Why can decks and consoles only run a few programs while commlinks are effectively running multiple ones at once? Because of their reconfigurable or specialized nature and the need for the programs to interact with those different configurations tie up processing power.
4) Why hasn't anyone protested the loss of their favorite programs? Because the programs the average person would use are still there its just the hacking/illegal ones that can't be done without specialized hardware under the new system.

I think that will work. Really its amazing the progress you can make when people stop saying "You can't do that because of X" and work with you on what you want which is working out a way to explain X.

Aranador

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« Reply #41 on: <05-17-14/0857:51> »
Yay !

Indeed the key is always to look for your own answer "Why", because at the end of the day, mechanics really only tell you the "what".

Let me dip back on some real life knowledge for another reason why a deck is so much more pricey than a commlink.

It is to do with what is called 'transmission security'.  Obviously for a device to participate on the wireless matrix, it must transmit.  But it just isn't as simple as "hey, lets broadcast on this frequency."

Zillions of devices all have to use the matrix at once, and they do so through various techniques, such as time division multiplexing, and frequency separation and/or sharing, and all sorts of goodies.

What that means is, at any given moment, a commlink could be transmitting on any one of a whole range of frequencies.  And the pattern that it uses can be unique and specific, and if you don't know that pattern, you cant even begin to listen or communicate with the device, as you don't know where to send your transmission.  That's transmission security, and as a decker, you want to be able to overcome that.

So a deck has to be able to interact simultaneously with loads of frequencies all at once, cast a big net as it were, in order to catch your commlink.

Which means that a deck has to have the transmission part of many commlinks.  It is a parallel commlink, and thus right off the bat, expensive as several commlinks because it is several commlinks.


Do you need to know this?  Not at all.  The rules say that a commlink is a couple of grand and a deck is a few hundred grand.  But sometimes you want to know, even if you don't need to.  So you think about the why, and come up with your own reason.  Maybe based on real world stuff, maybe based on logic and extrapolation, or maybe pseudoscientific gobbledygook or the phrase "Its magic."

The important thing is though - don't be asking "why is this the rule", because it just is.  Instead ask  "What fits the rule".


I wonder if anyone will understand what I mean here?  Oh well.

Senko

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« Reply #42 on: <05-17-14/0906:32> »
Or maybe I could ask on the forums and someone who knows that sort of thing could tell me?

Aranador

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« Reply #43 on: <05-17-14/0939:18> »
But there were all sorts of answers, which were not apparently hitting the mark !  Also isn't it nice to get out your own imagination too?

Senko

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« Reply #44 on: <05-17-14/1131:44> »
Most of the answers were "They can't do this because the rules say they can't do this" in different ways rather than actually trying to figure out a way to fix it and frankly that was just an attempt to let it all die down in truth I'm still not happy with them but its obvious I'm in the minority so I'm just walking away. Also no it wasn't nice to use my imagination even if it had been a viable explanation I'm hugely busy at work with only a few minutes here and there to grab free e.g. thinking about it driving home or while walking into town for lunch so I don't have the time to really sit down and work on this stuff. As it is I think I'm not going to have a job this time next year.