[Senko]

Nice line and most of it is sort of future planning. I'm more generalist than specialist so while in an actual game I'd focus on magic, magic and a little bit of face since this is just theory crafting I feel comfy being a great starting mage, decent starting face and decent hacker/fighter. In other words while they aren't the best out there they are a very good mage compared to a starting character (initiate 4) and a pretty good front line face they can also serve as a back up decker and don't look like a mage so they  may be able to buy a few moments to react. For an actual game character drop the deck but a katana is fairly cheap for combat camoflage.

When the enemy see's the figure in full mil-spec armour, carying an assault rifle with more guns and a bladed weapon their first thought is going to be that they're a street sam. After she hits them with ball lightning their second thought is going to be owwwwww followed by ok not a street sam at which point she becomes a priority target but hopefully the camoflage will buy those few precious seconds at the start of combat.

[RHat]

Yeah, all of that is...  Not needed for that kind of camouflage.  Very excessive.

[Senko]

You can never have too much camoflage, just like there is no such thing as overkill only "Is it dead yet?" and "Reload"

[RHat]

I think once it gets in the way of the useful stuff,  you've discovered the point of excess.

[Senko]

Useful stuff = 1 hand + voice its not in the way, particuarly for a generalist. Seriously like I said in an actual game I'd probably just have main gun, side arm and armour for a mage however since this isn't for an actual game I'm indulging my generalist tendencies, long term they'll actually be able to use all this well enough for a back up character if not front line.

[kuromi]

Yeah, the whole "geek the mage first" is an adage and is in no way like hard coded AI. The GM is in no way obligated to not have the opponents attack you first just because you don't look like a mage, or rather, not give you less of a chance than the rest of your team to not be attacked because you're not magic looking. Heh, I mean, if no one in your group is obviously a mage, its not like the opposition will delay their action waiting to see if the mage reveals themselves, they'll prolly just attack whoever is in front of them, and at that point they might decide to focus fire on the armored street sam and take her out before she can start killing them.

I mean, if you want to run around in full mil-spec armor for the protection, sure. (though running around like that is sure to freak the opposition out, and if they're corporate/governmental, they might call in heavily armed response teams with anti-armor capability) If you want to carry around an AR or shotgun to have more tools in your role as a "generalist", that's fine too. But if its just to not look like a mage, that's a little much.

That being said, you could always carry the Optimum II or an HK XM-30 (configured with the underbarrel shotgun). Then you'd have both on in one handy weapon. But yeah, they each have their role, and honestly which one is better depends on the mission. An AR might be better in general because it has better range- yeah, its not as powerful close up as a shotgun, but its no slouch either in the damage department. So, you have a way to engage enemies from farther away if you needed to. Plus like some people said, you can use it for suppressive fire. Of course, my street sam alternates between the SPAS-24 (w/ gels and flechettes) and the EBR (with gels and APDS) depending on the likely opposition and the environment, so she can't do suppressive fire, but at least they use the same skill.

Again, hopefully you are asking this as "which one will be a more useful tool" and not, "which one is the one a street sam is more likely to carry" as part of your disguise, like if you picked wrong the opposition would be all, "What the, they're dressed like a street sam, but they're carrying the wrong type of weapon for this situation, something's fishy here, they must be the mage, geek them!"

[Senko]

No I was asking which is the more useful skill. However I think I'll use that variant rule mentioned earlier and since I have no interest in heavy waeapons I just need to buy the guns and can use whichever's appropriate to the situation.

As for the armour full mil-spec isn't her normal wear on ops she tends more towards stealth (wear clothes to blend in), clothing appropriate to her role or general armour e.g. jacket that can look inocuous on the street "I ride a bike this + the helmets in case of accidents."

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't think that house rule will be very useful for theorycrafting if you have no guarantee your GM will actually utilize it.

Personally, I think Automatics are more useful because they include one type of "pistol" (size-wise) among them. At the same time, you have more legal options with Longarms than with Automatics; most of the best ARs are Forbidden while most shotguns and hunting rifles are Restricted at worst. The addition of choke settings has made shotguns somewhat competitive compared to high-fire bursts and suppression too. So it's mostly a matter of style and concealability.

[martinchaen]

Yeah, the removal of Automatics as a skill is highly situational; I would go so far as to state that there is absolutely NO basis to claim that "most" people here on the forum use it.

[Xenon]

What variant rules are those?

Just a house rule that a lot of people here on the boards seem to use.  It does away with the Automatics skill, and puts Pistols, Longarms, and Heavy Weapons all in the Firearms skill group.  Pistols covers everything up to a Machine Pistol, Longarms covers everything from Submachine Guns to Sniper Rifles.  Heavy Weapons continues to be the same in every way.

Pistols = All firearms you wield with one hand
Longarms = All firearms you wield with two hands (excluding heavy weapons)

[LionofPerth]

At least for the moment I would look towards Long Arms, as you have more legal options and more importantly, more flexibility with them.

Pistols can do in the close in work, so can some shotguns. If you're needing to hit at range, nothing can do better than the EBR in mind, both for cost and availability.

If anything I'd actually ask your GM about the presence of extended magazines, sure it might not be fully automatic, add in a fore grip or bipod, bipod is my call, with an extended mag, say hello to a very, very light machine gun.

[kuromi]

Pistols = All firearms you wield with one hand
Longarms = All firearms you wield with two hands (excluding heavy weapons)

Well, technically proper control and procedure would have you firing a pistol two handed also, gripping the weapon firmly with two hands on the grip. My only issue with just making it pistols and longarms is what category do smgs fall under? Would they go under longarms also, and the only thing you would use pistol for is tasers and those categories with pistol in the name (i..e, hold-out pistol to machine pistols) ?

Because yes, I would think weapons like the HK-227 and FN P-93 that come with stocks are meant to be fired in a similar way that you would fire rifles and shotguns, with the stock braced against your shoulder. But then you have SMGs like the Ingram Smartgun (which although the various illustrations throughout the years depict it with a folding stock, its never actually had one stats-wise), physically, its design is no different that the Steyr TMP. (Or at least what the Steyr TMP of our current time looks like). So why would the TMP be fired with pistols but the Ingram with longarms?

[Xenon]

In the real world all SMGs are two-handed.
In Hollywood all SMGs can be fired with one hand without a negative dice pool modifier

In the house rule at our table you can actually use SMGs with both skills. Pistol Skill when you wield it in one hand ("gangsta style" which is seem to be the "norm" in the SR universe) and Longarm skill when you use it with both hands (we also ruled that in order to get the benefit of the extra point of recoil compensation from a folding stock you need to wield the SMG with both hands "spec op style").

[kuromi]

[quote author=Xenon link=topic=16674.msg295114#msg295114 date=140120909
In the house rule at our table you can actually use SMGs with both skills. Pistol Skill when you wield it in one hand ("gangsta style" which is seem to be the "norm" in the SR universe) and Longarm skill when you use it with both hands (we also ruled that in order to get the benefit of the extra point of recoil compensation from a folding stock you need to wield the SMG with both hands "spec op style").
[/quote]

Ah, I see. That sounds reasonable.

[SlowDeck]

In the house rule at our table you can actually use SMGs with both skills. Pistol Skill when you wield it in one hand ("gangsta style" which is seem to be the "norm" in the SR universe) and Longarm skill when you use it with both hands (we also ruled that in order to get the benefit of the extra point of recoil compensation from a folding stock you need to wield the SMG with both hands "spec op style").

And now, I must have a character threaten to "shoot someone spec-op style"