[firebug]

This is a small issue that came up during a session I ran.  The players themselves didn't have too big an issue with it, but I was secretly wondering if it really should have been such a huge problem as it seemed.

The set up:

My players are doing a one-off extraction with a bunch of custom built characters. Part of the mission is that the place is expecting an extraction attempt, but this is still the time when the target is most vulnerable.  As they're talking strategy, I explain to them that simply trying to silently dispatch the guards won't automatically work.  I remark that, just like the players, the guards have biomonitors and so attacking them would alert others because of it.  The decker and I talk about how he could use Edit to make them give "false positives", but only on one or two at a time due to the fact that Edit has to be done every combat turn continuously.  Bricking them wouldn't work either, because any guard with their salt (especially ones who are expecting runners) interprets "sudden disappearance" as a reason to be on alert.

I'm wondering, is there really no way for the runners to get around this?  They eventually ditched stealth in favor of a well-timed and organized blitz (which I was all for encouraging, I like to see that kind of planning and teamwork) to get in and out before the (extra strength) Ares HTR team got there.  But it seems lame for something as simple as a biomonitor to so easily hamper a stealthier approach.

So my question is, what would the players have to do to eliminate the issue with the biomonitors, thus allowing them to do the more stealthy "knock out/kill guards, in and out before someone contacts the authorities" approach?

[Reaver]

With a little planning and fore-thought, I would allow the hacker to 'spoof' the biomonitors so that they continue to broadcast a healthy signal while they took the guards down.

Maybe have several extra monitors with the runners that they swap out for the guard's while the hacker runs matrix interference?

[firebug]

Spoof seems like a more "one instance" effect, not one that could sustain something that's giving a continual broadcast.  Like how you can't Spoof a camera to say there's nobody there.

[ProfGast]

Spoofing a camera to show that there's nothing happening/nobody there is a STAPLE in the concept of bypassing cameras though...

For example, there is the Speed method where you take a recording of a short length of film, then transmit it in an infinite loop.  I don't see why you couldn't do that for a biomonitor too.

[Ryo]

They could always hit the guards one at a time. Run a continuous edit to keep the biomonitor from alerting others, knock out the guard, then stop editing the monitor. Heartrate of an unconscious guy shouldn't be all that different from a bored guard.

[Kincaid]

Spoofing a camera to show that there's nothing happening/nobody there is a STAPLE in the concept of bypassing cameras though...

For example, there is the Speed method where you take a recording of a short length of film, then transmit it in an infinite loop.  I don't see why you couldn't do that for a biomonitor too.

That's an Edit File roll, not a Spoof Command roll.

Depending on the time frame, you could have the decker Spoof a few of the devices (but just that) so the guards begin to think that the biomonitors are glitchy for some reason, making them less apt to immediately respond to an actual alarm.

Ideally, you'd Snoop the commlink then Spoof a false positive on the biomonitor.  When the guard says that he's okay over the commlink, you record it.  Edit the sound file as you see fit.  Now when he goes down for real and they call him, you playback the, "all clear" message he sent back earlier, probably altered somewhat so it's not verbatim.

[Reiper]

Spoofing a camera to show that there's nothing happening/nobody there is a STAPLE in the concept of bypassing cameras though...

For example, there is the Speed method where you take a recording of a short length of film, then transmit it in an infinite loop.  I don't see why you couldn't do that for a biomonitor too.

That's how my team ended up doing it.. Even if it isn't exactly by the rule book, I don't see a reason not to allow it (and I honestly have no idea if it was by the book or not, I just went with the flow because it made sense).

Although as a GM, I wouldn't tell them about the biomonitors unless they came up (decker scanning, them asking the Johnson about the security, etc).

[firebug]

As Kincaid said, that's Edit, not Spoof, and is problematic for the same reasons I said earlier; you can't keep looping it on every guard forever.  ProfGast, you may have been playing the game wrong for a while...

But what people said about how once they're unconscious, you can just let it go...  I didn't think about that.  I just kind of saw biomonitors as "lets the characters know their condition monitor boxes in a non-meta way" and so assumed it could tell how much Stun damage someone had taken.  Though obviously it wouldn't referred to as such.  But I suppose it would make sense that once they're unconscious it wouldn't seem any different.

[Csjarrat]

Biomonitors are quite vaguely worded, though they do say they monitor heart rates and such.
When you get physically hurt, your heart rate goes up and blood pressure will change too so that would show up on a biomonitor RAW.
What it wont do is it wont measure brain activity (EEG, unless it can tap into that info from a trode net; GM's call on this) so it would have no idea if you were asleep, unconscious or awake.
To that end, if the players hit the guards with knockout gas/narcoject/nerve strike or whatever, i'd have the biomonitors continue reading as the guard being fine.
Of course, their matrix icons won't move on their predesigned patrol routes so their chief of security or sec spider may well pick up on it (especially if the security chief is sat in an office watching the feeds from the guard's helmet cams!)
so its not exactly a free pass for stealth take-downs.

good security has multiple layers of redundancy so if you take guards out, eventually someone or something will notice. for the shadowrunners, its about managing that window of opportunity between action/discovery. if they'll get discovered very quickly, they're better off finding an alternative route to remain hidden or using overwhelming local force and then hightailing it before HTR shows up

[DigitalZombie]

I would see it as doable to loop those bio signals for the entire run. Even though the rules doesnt adress it, other than the continious edit action effect the hacker has to do.
I would also rule it a lot easier tp edit in a continous loop on a fixed, non-rotating camera, with no need to have the hacker work on it after the initial set-up. I think what the rulebook is refering to, is a bit more advanced security, where simply just lloping the feed would raise suspicion immediatly.

If one of the runners can keep his cool, he could also wear them himself:) unless, ofcourse the monitors are also used for tracking them with. (although I think they might just use their links for that)

Otherwise controlling one or two at a time, as you yourself said Firebug would also be doable, How many did they expect to take out before reaching their target?

[firebug]

I would see it as doable to loop those bio signals for the entire run. Even though the rules doesnt adress it, other than the continious edit action effect the hacker has to do.
I would also rule it a lot easier tp edit in a continous loop on a fixed, non-rotating camera, with no need to have the hacker work on it after the initial set-up. I think what the rulebook is refering to, is a bit more advanced security, where simply just lloping the feed would raise suspicion immediatly.

If one of the runners can keep his cool, he could also wear them himself:) unless, ofcourse the monitors are also used for tracking them with. (although I think they might just use their links for that)

Otherwise controlling one or two at a time, as you yourself said Firebug would also be doable, How many did they expect to take out before reaching their target?

Well before none of us realized you could stop "looping" the biomonitors after they fell unconcious, though almost NONE of my players brought non-lethal methods.  The two main combatants are 100% murder machines, and the rigger uses explosive rounds in drone-mounted sniper rifles.  Which I would have complained about more if this weren't more or less a one-shot...  Anyways, before that they talked about having to loop all of the biomonitors for the guards, knowing they'd encounter at least six on the way to their target.  And that'd be on top of dealing with cameras.

Six successful Edit actions every turn is already stretching it as is (three passes with Fork).

I'm sure the HTR team I'm building will be enough to make them less full of themselves.  Especially when the HTR Magician uses Decrease Logic on the murder troll all the cameras can see, and so forth.  Honestly, if it weren't one-million-percent GM-cheese, I'd just have the HTR mage wander around going "and Decrease Logic on you, and Decrease STR on you...  Oh hey, they're all incapacitated."

[ProfGast]

As Kincaid said, that's Edit, not Spoof, and is problematic for the same reasons I said earlier; you can't keep looping it on every guard forever.  ProfGast, you may have been playing the game wrong for a while...

Kind of an unnecessary comment there.  For the record I wasn't using spoof as in "using spoof command" but rather spoof as in "Fake footage" since I hadn't had time to re-parse all of the vocabulary for 5th edition Matrix yet, but there you have it. 

Even then I don't see what's stopping you from running continuous Edit File actions on anything you have hacked into, at least until GOD takes heed.  After all continuously running basic actions is what Agents are pretty much good for.  1 Agent, + 1 Fork program means 2 biomonitors taken care of.

The Sony CIY-720 is capable of running 3 Agents, and the Fork program simultaneously, making it 6 Edits on continuous run.

This frees it up so the Decker can walk around looping cameras as they pass by etc.

[The_Hyphenator]

Biomonitors are quite vaguely worded, though they do say they monitor heart rates and such.
When you get physically hurt, your heart rate goes up and blood pressure will change too so that would show up on a biomonitor RAW.
What it wont do is it wont measure brain activity (EEG, unless it can tap into that info from a trode net; GM's call on this) so it would have no idea if you were asleep, unconscious or awake.
To that end, if the players hit the guards with knockout gas/narcoject/nerve strike or whatever, i'd have the biomonitors continue reading as the guard being fine.
Of course, their matrix icons won't move on their predesigned patrol routes so their chief of security or sec spider may well pick up on it (especially if the security chief is sat in an office watching the feeds from the guard's helmet cams!)
so its not exactly a free pass for stealth take-downs.

good security has multiple layers of redundancy so if you take guards out, eventually someone or something will notice. for the shadowrunners, its about managing that window of opportunity between action/discovery. if they'll get discovered very quickly, they're better off finding an alternative route to remain hidden or using overwhelming local force and then hightailing it before HTR shows up

I'd probably rule the EEG thing based on the Professional Level of security and how high-level the facility itself is. If it's just some warehouse or, say, a KE patrol, then I'd probably rule that it only monitors heartrate. If it were a secret SK research lab, then I'd probably rule that the monitors are higher-quality and take EEG into account.

That said, even if I ruled that the monitors only read vitals like heartrate and the PCs could knock a guard out without setting off the alarm, I'd probably decide that whoever's monitoring the guards' positions gets periodic perception rolls to notice the guy isn't moving on his usual patrol, and once they do notice, the jig is up.

[DigitalZombie]

Hmm although I suppose a bio monitor would show the difference between a body on patrol and a body in complete rest. (either sleeping or unconscious) and that might also trigger suspicion at the facility.

[The_Hyphenator]

Hmm although I suppose a bio monitor would show the difference between a body on patrol and a body in complete rest. (either sleeping or unconscious) and that might also trigger suspicion at the facility.

Depends on how sensitive it is. I'd probably operate under the assumption that more sensitive, well-protected facilities would use better bio-monitors and thus be more likely to pick up on something like that. But in either of those cases, I'd still have it boil down to a Perception roll on the part of whatever security staff was tracking the bio-monitors. Individual people are always the weak link in any security setup, after all.