[martinchaen]

That first link is actually my own go-to for a ballistic mask model. If they want just that, then that's a ballistic mask only in my view.

The latter link you posted could easily be represented by "just" a helmet, along with goggles and a respirator, for example.

The only reason for stacking a helmet and a ballistic mask it to get more armor.

Ask yourself this question: should my players be allowed to put on two pieces of gear that will then exceed the armor value provided by a full military helmet?

Because that's the effect. And it's why I personally won't allow the two to be worn at the same time. Full Body Armor, SWAT Armor, Riot Control Armor, and Security Armor helmets all provide +3 armor, and most of these cost considerably more than a basic helmet and ballistic mask, though they do provide the option of a chemical seal.

Again, your call but I personally see no reason for making the kind of modifications to the rules you're proposing. A STR 2 character can wear a full helmet without any issue, so the armor encumbrance rules only really come into play if they start piling on armor add-ons. To my mind, that should come at a price.

[elrikthebastard]

I am not that generous. I would not stack the armour. I would only consider it in the case of a face shot/head shot. I am not interested in head kit that represented a +4.

I have been readings the rules again and again and I do understand your point. I also find it odd that you can stack the head armour.

[PiXeL01]

Well you can stack a shield on top of everything including a helmet since it is simple additions, so why shouldn't you stack a mask and a helmet if you allow both to be worn? What about armor from a cyberskull wouldn't that count either then?
Military and security helmets are already described as being full-faced so there isn't a need for them to be wearable at the same time unless you are simply trying to get more capacity out of it, which would be another reason not to allow it.

[martinchaen]

PiXeL01; my issue with players wanting to stack a ballistic mask and a helmet is that it then becomes a piece of equipment that is less expensive but provides more protection than all helmets in the game with the exception of the Mil-Spec helmet, which is Hardened.

I'd also challenge the simple practicality of wearing a ballistic mask AND a helmet, simply because of their designs. Any current (modern) helmet design that incorporates a face shield would to my mind be better classified as Full Body, Riot Control, SWAT, or Security Armor, instead of players trying to finagle a +4 AV bonus out of two pieces of equipment costing a grand total of 350¥, or the same as a single kit of PPP Vitals protection...

That's about it, for me at least.

[Kincaid]

I'm with martinchaen on this one.  If you're wearing a MICH with all the trimmings, you aren't anxious to add to that.  Also, the game balance issue is significant.

[elrikthebastard]

Sunday night was game night. Some interesting points. Most of my players grew upon on 4e. In 4e the helmet is described as having an open face or a closed face. The player decides and of course you can not (normally) remove the face plate. In my player's minds, their PC's are using full helmets that cover the face. So unless you can strap a Ballistic mask over that, no dice.

While talking, I had a dim memory of going hunting in the middle of winter, 30 years ago, and having to take my snowmobile helmet off because I was not able to lay down and shoot my rifle. For me at least, the helmet hit my shoulders/back and road up over my face. This all made it sit wrong on my head. I could be a mutant.

Another one of my buddies made a strong point that most ballistic face masks, are considered 3/4 masks. It fits like a (hockey) Goal Mask. Meaning full face coverage, that rolls back to cover most of the hears, up above your forehead and at least half way up your skull, and may even drop down to protect the neck. The entire mask is held in place by at least four straps that attached to a "back plate" that is positioned on the back of your head. Wearing a true Ballistic Mask makes it impossible to wear a helmet of any sort.

Their are the half varieties, but they tend to only cover the direct face, and still do not sit properly with a helm.

He was very certain that many people, especially me, got/get confused between true Ballistic Masks and the Airsoft/Paintball variety. He called me an ignorant ass, easily confused by the web. He then told me to stop playing video games. You can tell your friends by the friendly and even commentary.

This particular buddy is a purist. He also put things into perspective for me.

So this is back on me. I obviously have one thing in mind, while reality has another.

The game rules in 5e do not say if you can wear the two together or not. Not sure if that is an over site or they feel common sense should win out on this one.

At our table, last night, we decided that you can not wear the two together. This also put the Encumbrance into a different light.

So I will say, Thank you everyone. I will go back to work now and stop complaining.

E

[Ishmell]

I will go back to work now and stop complaining.

Whoa there! Hold your horses there mate! What's the point of having a stable internet connection if you don't use it to complain on the internet while avoiding work?

[elrikthebastard]

Fair enough.

... confident that I will be back soon.

[Imveros]

I will go back to work now and stop complaining.

Whoa there! Hold your horses there mate! What's the point of having a stable internet connection if you don't use it to complain on the internet while avoiding work?

cat videos?

[elrikthebastard]

terribly allergic!

Squirrel videos?