[martinchaen]

Agreed, Mirikon, however, shock gloves and stun batons would be some of the only weapons in the game that doesn't add net hits to damage, and I honestly just can't be bothered making a special exception.

Not to mention the fact that this rule was never once mentioned in SR5 core; it only became a thing after R&G.

[Namikaze]

True, Namikaze; I just think it's unfair to Shock Gloves and Stun Batons if Stick-n-shock rounds stage up damage...

What do you mean by "stage up damage"?  Don't Stick-n-shock rounds lower damage overall?

[Kincaid]

True, Namikaze; I just think it's unfair to Shock Gloves and Stun Batons if Stick-n-shock rounds stage up damage...

What do you mean by "stage up damage"?  Don't Stick-n-shock rounds lower damage overall?

He means that you add to the DV of Stick-n-Shock with net hits, but Run & Gun does not allow this for Shock Gloves and Stun Batons--the damage is flat.

I allow staging of those two items if you make a roll without the +2 bonus dice for touch attacks and allowing ties to go to the defender.  It seems like a reasonable compromise.

[Novocrane]

I allow staging of those two items if you make a roll without the +2 bonus dice for touch attacks and allowing ties to go to the defender.  It seems like a reasonable compromise.

I don't think that's actually a house rule or anything. It may just be a direct use of given rules.

[Namikaze]

Ahhh, I understand now.  If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the use of the Unarmed Combat skill allow for net hits to be added to a shock glove attack?  I may have missed something during my hiatus, but I was under the impression that because the attack is an Unarmed Combat attack it could still benefit from net hits, while also getting the benefit of a Touch Attack.

[Kincaid]

Ahhh, I understand now.  If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the use of the Unarmed Combat skill allow for net hits to be added to a shock glove attack?  I may have missed something during my hiatus, but I was under the impression that because the attack is an Unarmed Combat attack it could still benefit from net hits, while also getting the benefit of a Touch Attack.

That's how I, and presumably others, did things prior to Run & Gun, but the change/clarification to touch attacks in that book made it pretty clear you can't get the +2 dice, win ties, and stage damage all at the same time.  My low-Strength face had a moment of silence for his Shock Glove.

[Namikaze]

Wow, I am going to have to re-read those rules.  I must have missed something the first time, because it seemed to me that it was just defining a Touch Attack a little more strictly than the core rulebook.

I see the clarification that took place in Run & Gun now.  But I also don't see that the clarification states anything about Touch-Only attacks being the only option.

Weapons such as the shock glove or baton can inflict damage during a touch-only attack. These attacks don’t benefit from net hits from the attack to increase Damage Value. Using the weapon to cause damage with a touch-only attack makes it the only attack action the character can make during that Action Phase.

I take this to mean that if you're using a Shock Glove or Stun Baton, and you do a Touch-Only Attack then you get the benefits and drawbacks of a Touch-Only Attack.  If you use the weapon normally, then it uses the appropriate skill, but you don't get the benefits (or drawbacks) of the Touch-Only Attack.

After all, none of the text in Run & Gun seems to supercede this:

Attacks with shock gloves use the Unarmed Combat skill.

All it does is clarify what happens when a user uses the Touch-Only Attack Complex Action.

[martinchaen]

Agreed, Namikaze, that's how I'm playing it anyway.

[Kincaid]

I don't disagree.  The wrinkle, of course, is the guy with aluminum bone lacing who punches a guy using Unarmed Combat while wearing a shock glove.  Most sane GMs wouldn't let this fly, but I'm sure it comes up at tables.

[Namikaze]

But that's the point, Kincaid.  If you use the shock glove weapon (that's the key here), you don't also get to use your Unarmed Attack weapon.

[Rythymhack]

The way the R&G rule reads to me is that it removes any bonuses (including added DV ) provided bt the martial art in question (so no +1DV from boxing). That's it. It does not sound to me like a complete change to how damage works for a shock glove.

[Tarislar]

So as I'm reading this I'm thinking their are 3 options,  please correct me if I'm getting this wrong.

Billy the Samurai has a Cyber Limb with Shock Hand.

1.  Billy can make an Unarmed Attack to do Str-P Damage.  Extra Successes add to DV.

2.  Billy can make a "Cyber Weapon" Attack with his Unarmed Combat Skill.  Extra Successes add to DV.

3.  Billy can make a "Touch Only" Attack with his Unarmed Combat Skill.  Extra Successes will NOT add to DV.

[JackVII]

2.  Billy can make a "Cyber Weapon" Attack with his Unarmed Combat Skill.  Extra Successes add to DV.

Otherwise known as: "What did the five fingers say to the face? ZAP!"