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Rascism

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LionofPerth

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« Reply #15 on: <09-04-14/0732:38> »
Just remember the golden rule, and that's that this is a game, and games are fun.  If you're going to throw that level of random vehemence against folks based on their metaspecies, make sure you're tossing them a bone every now and then, too.  Make sure they get to satisfyingly beat up some Humanis thugs, make sure they get to have their own space (where they're welcome and the rest of the crew has to feel ill at ease, for a change of campaign), make sure the players are on board and enjoying themselves, instead of just taking an "I warned them, now they suffer!" type of stance.

If you're gonna focus on racism, try to keep the game enjoyable despite it.  I'd, personally, shoot for Django Unchained racism, not American History X racism.

It's not going to be a hammer and there's a certain level of control the players should have in this area. As I've made it clear to them, there's going to be down time and plenty of it. What you do with it is up to is very much on your plate. I also keep an open inbox for players to talk to me about what's going on in the game, I try to be as open as I can be.

None the less it is present in the world, one player is going to be in for a rude surprise or two.

This strikes me as being very opposite-what-Critias-just-recommended.  "Well, you can go anywhere you want, it's just that in all the good places, you're going to be spat on, kicked out, etc.  This is fair warning, and I hope it's clear to you."  Re-read his post, maybe?  Make sure you have places where the racism is in the opposite direction - or, you know, there's little to no racism at all.

Racism in Shadowrun is like racism in RL - the squeaky wheel gets the grease, i.e. Westboro Baptist gets the press, while the other hundred thousand churches who promote race equality get ignored.  90+% of the people you meet should be neutral, or perhaps only slightly biased for/against a race.  Sure, a human or dwarf (or elf) is gonna be a little skittish around a troll for the first time or two; who ain't, y'know?  But after you get to know her, Becky turns into the Secretary, not the Troll.

Racism is a thing, and it can be a big thing.  It just ain't gonna be a big thing with everyone.  And if it is?  Then make sure there's people who are on their side too.

There will be plenty who are on their side or simply don't care. More in the don't care category. Of the major NPC's only one is an outspoken racist. So my figure is more like..... 5% really. 
When in doubt, C4.

Darq

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« Reply #16 on: <09-04-14/1406:40> »
For me most people in Shadowrun that my players will meet, might be racist, but they are also realist. They probably wouldn't let their racism show other than perhaps snide comments when the PC is "out of earshot". A more likely reaction might be fear as that is something the NPCs would be less able to control - again not professionals they meet. If a professional let personal prejudice impact their dealings, they will be less likely to be successful - Corporations wouldn't stand for that and of course they have their public image to consider.

I would also think this would be expressed at turning a blind eye toward injustice or duress on a Orc meta. With regards to fancy establishments - is the Troll in a Tux? If not I would expect the same treatment as anyone acting inappropriate - again public image is important.

In my game the effects of Racism would be more subtle, but certainly could be deadly "Oh sorry we don't have any assets we can send to help".

Crossbow

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« Reply #17 on: <09-04-14/2008:03> »
In the PBP game I am running, I like the level I have achieved.  Nothing overt, but it is present and factorable into equations.  Racial slurs are used, usually in anger, but no one is stupid enough to talk smack to a troll in a one-on-one scenario.

I think it is an important flavor to the world, if you don't make it commonplace I would feel like the roleplay was somewhat lacking.

Critias

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« Reply #18 on: <09-05-14/1026:24> »
There will be plenty who are on their side or simply don't care. More in the don't care category. Of the major NPC's only one is an outspoken racist. So my figure is more like..... 5% really.
Right, but the problem is that it's not just a numbers game.  It doesn't matter how many are wildly racist against them, it matters who they are, right?  You started this thread saying that "a number" of NPCs will be really ugly racists against orks and trolls, and you were specifically talking about a major NPC that just won't deal with trolls at all.  That's great that you've fleshed out an NPC and put some thought into them, but what happens if that NPC's playing Mr. Johnson or Fixer tonight?  You said she won't deal with them at all, end of statement...so is that player just not allowed to play?

"Thanks for coming, here's a slice of pizza, now go home, we'll see you next week?"

I mean, kudos for taking the meta-setting seriously.  Racism's a thing in the game world, and representing it in-game is sometimes important, it can sometimes add a layer of realism to the game (inasmuch as racism against orks and stuff is 'realism'), it can add a level of dystopia to it, hit home the magical nature of the place, yadda yadda yadda.  Sure. 

But never, ever, forget that this is a game, and games are fun.  When you lovingly craft a major NPC that will just never do anything, ever, at all, ever, for one of your players, you're basically fucking that player over, big time.  Do you similarly have a major NPC that's got major Ork Underground ties that will never deal with all the humans, elves, and dwarves in your group?  If so, what happens to them the night that your adventure is based around that contact? 

LionofPerth

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« Reply #19 on: <09-05-14/1256:17> »
There will be plenty who are on their side or simply don't care. More in the don't care category. Of the major NPC's only one is an outspoken racist. So my figure is more like..... 5% really.
Right, but the problem is that it's not just a numbers game.  It doesn't matter how many are wildly racist against them, it matters who they are, right?  You started this thread saying that "a number" of NPCs will be really ugly racists against orks and trolls, and you were specifically talking about a major NPC that just won't deal with trolls at all.  That's great that you've fleshed out an NPC and put some thought into them, but what happens if that NPC's playing Mr. Johnson or Fixer tonight?  You said she won't deal with them at all, end of statement...so is that player just not allowed to play?

"Thanks for coming, here's a slice of pizza, now go home, we'll see you next week?"

I mean, kudos for taking the meta-setting seriously.  Racism's a thing in the game world, and representing it in-game is sometimes important, it can sometimes add a layer of realism to the game (inasmuch as racism against orks and stuff is 'realism'), it can add a level of dystopia to it, hit home the magical nature of the place, yadda yadda yadda.  Sure. 

But never, ever, forget that this is a game, and games are fun.  When you lovingly craft a major NPC that will just never do anything, ever, at all, ever, for one of your players, you're basically fucking that player over, big time.  Do you similarly have a major NPC that's got major Ork Underground ties that will never deal with all the humans, elves, and dwarves in your group?  If so, what happens to them the night that your adventure is based around that contact?

I don't  believe I have. Quite simply, this game is meant to be a higher level game, I want to see players using their contact to look for jobs in their downtime. That while they are introduced to a world of higher level contacts than what they initially had, they have their own networks to rely on and use. If they're desperately chasing a job, more gear, they can use the network they bring to the game to get it.

Sure, if they want to work for this NPC in question, she will definitely prefer a non-troll point of contact. If the group doesn't want to deal with her at all, it's going to be their choice. If they want to keep her happy, they will have to work out something that will do so. This is the price for having access to her resources, assets and network. Will it be entirely nice for the troll character? Probably not, though knowing him the way I do and the attitude he takes towards role playing, it will challenge him, something he has seemed to enjoy.

Though I do want to clarify, she will only ever be their fixer if they choose her to be. She's a secondary character to the story, due to a favour she owes to the primary fixer, one of her clubs is their first meeting point. There are a number of NPC's on the list, some of which are racists, of those not all are racist towards orcs and trolls. They still are racist. It's the nature of the part of the world they are in, who they may end up dealing with. I will choose which NPC they end up dealing with by how they play. I full expect my cast of twenty, twenty five odd, to get reduced down to five, six, by the way the campaign flows, works. Ideally one major contact for each player, of which they can choose to do favours for each other by using that contact. How they pay the price, that's up to them.

In short, if they want to go into the Orc underground, yeap, they can. They need to speak to one of, four odd NPC's. Two of those think lowly of humans or elves and I don't blame them for it. I wrote them after all.

I think you're a little too caught up on how racist this particular contact is, rather than than the whole image. Though, that might be just as much on me as it is on you. I have asked some very specific questions.
When in doubt, C4.

Spooky

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« Reply #20 on: <11-25-14/1911:39> »
I have a racist character on my table now, an work who hates trolls and has combat junkie flaw. I tossed a mission at the team that had them defending the local church (non-denominational, pastor is a troll!) From an elf poser go gang. The real kicker was at the end, when the entire congregation wanted to shake hands, I had a six year old troll girl look at him and declare him as her hero. Player had a hilarious expression, and a point was made about choosing racism in character. Haven't yet put the boot on the other foot, but it will happen. While I have personally experienced racism, I as gm aim for the teaching/humorous side, rather than gritty. Being told you suck because of things you have no control over makes nobody's day fun, ooc or ic.
Spooky, what do you do this pass? Shoot him with my thunderstruck gauss rifle. (Rolls)  8 hits. Does that blow his head off?

Namikaze

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« Reply #21 on: <11-25-14/1942:50> »
I think that was an excellent approach to the character's racism.  Put him in a situation that requires a tremendous amount of willpower, might teach the character a lesson, and will provide laughs for the players too.  Kudos!  Most of my players end up picking up a Bias against Infected, for whatever reason.  Probably because I love to have their safehouses be on top of feral ghoul dens.  But I think I'm going to give them a mission that involves saving a vampire's life.  It should prove similarly enlightening.
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Spooky

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« Reply #22 on: <11-26-14/0106:05> »
It was fun watching the player struggle with the response.
Spooky, what do you do this pass? Shoot him with my thunderstruck gauss rifle. (Rolls)  8 hits. Does that blow his head off?