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The Genre of "Post-Cyberpunk"

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TheWanderingJewels

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« Reply #45 on: <09-17-14/2321:24> »
Wikipedia offers this rough explanation of the Cyberpunk Genre: "Cyberpunk is a science fiction genre noted for its focus on "high tech and low life." The name is derived from cybernetics and punk and was originally coined by Bruce Bethke as the title of his short story "Cyberpunk," published in 1983, although the style was popularized well before its publication by editor Gardner Dozois. It features advanced science, such as information technology and cybernetics, coupled with a degree of breakdown or radical change in the social order."

While once true, the term "high-tech low-life's" doesn't really encapsulate how the genre has evolved over the years. While it was largely true that the first Cyberpunk heroes were "Marginalized, alienated loners who lived on the edge of society in generally dystopic futures where daily life was impacted by rapid technological change, an ubiquitous datasphere of computerized information, and invasive modification of the human body" such as in the anime Bubblegum Crisis. Early Cyberpunk tended to be heavily influenced by film noir movies. The modern Classic Blade Runner was the Apogee of this line of writing

Cyberpunk has since then evolved into to seeing how technology (particularly cybernetics) affects society at large. Examples of this later evolution are available in the Ghost In The Shell Series of films and OVA's as well as the modern classic films Appleseed & Vexille, where in while society has changed, the characters are largely humanly recognizable instead of film noir archtypes, though surrounded by exceptionally advanced technology and possibly having biological or cybernetic modifications. Later cyberpunk also seems to have a noticeable lack of postmodernist nihilism though in it, which tends to put it at odds with it's parentage.

This tends to put in in the PostCyberpunk field, which includes"

1.Postcyberpunk tends to deal with characters who are more involved with society, and act to defend an existing social order or create a better society.
2.Protagonists of postcyberpunk are more often young urban professionals with more social status.
3.In cyberpunk, the alienating effect of new technology is emphasised, whereas in postcyberpunk, "technology is society".
4.Includes a sense of humor, as opposed to the frequently hardboiled nature of cyberpunk.

Be that as it may there are certain traits in both strains of Cyberpunk thought which are consistant as far as the Post/Cyberpunk hero is concerned

Rebellion against unjust authority: In Cyberpunk, the hero (typically low ranging street person or functionary) this can range from the classical cyberpunk antagonist, The MegaCorporation. Others include The Man (police, polticials, etc) to rival gangers, policlubs, terrorists, et all. This tends to be because of a rather nihilist bent to the character, even though they might say to themselves it's for the classical reasons. Film noir was big on this, and so was it's postmodernist child, Cyberpunk.
PostCyberpunk tends to incorporate the above elements, but with a rather mode optimistic outlook instead of the tilling-at-windmills feel of Cyberpunk.

Style Over Substance: Rather big in the Cyberpunk mindset , it didn't matter how well you did, it's how well you looked while you were doing it. Do things with a bit of Panache and flair, which is more important than doing things right.
Which ended up with a lot of dead cyberpunks heroes and left the smarter breed to flourish and evolve into the PostCyberpunk set which could be described as: Substance over Style, but if you can swing it, Style & Substance. Or put more simply: Think Smart, Live Long, Dry Gulch the Bastards Later.

The Street Finds it's uses for Technology: This translated usually into computers used for hacking into anything or cybernetics (usually low end questionable stuff) being implanted (voluntarily) into the Cyberpunk hero to give then edge against the antagonist (with questionable side effects). Given this was usually written by people who had little clue how the hardware worked, so used it as an alegory for the alienation they were trying to convey. PostCyberpunk tends to take a more realistic approach to high tech various forms of implants, namely it's just hardware/tools, subject to all the quirks that any form of hardware may be prone too, but nothing like the alienation of the previous era, with a notable exception of full body cyborgs having problems adjusting to society, being what they are.

Society Sucks: from the Wiki: "a closer look at [cyberpunk authors] reveals that they nearly always portray future societies in which governments have become wimpy and pathetic …Popular science fiction tales by Gibson, Williams, Cadigan and others do depict Orwellian accumulations of power in the next century, but nearly always clutched in the secretive hands of a wealthy or corporate elite." this is where both genres tend to crossover, with Cyberpunk being far more extreme in showing how society needs to burn down and start over, with PostCyberpunk being more moderate with only a few choice sections needing to be removed (usually the ones no one wants around or one that's going to be a problem for the players).
Tech dreams of organic toys
And I'm runnin' out on the edge
Soft screams of the rockerboys
Echoing through my head

--Miracle Of Sound, City Of Night

TheWanderingJewels

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« Reply #46 on: <09-17-14/2336:29> »
The above being said, let's take a look at some of the more common archetypes:

The Killer: They go by the name Solo, Samurai, Mercenary, Security Specialist, etc. They might worked for a Corporation, government, or as an independent contractor, but the bottom line is that they are trained to kill. They might go about it in a callous manner, or they might regret killing. But they are masters of various forms of violence however certain personalities tend to predominate the Cyberpunk frame of mind vs Post Cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk: the archetype of the Nihilistic Killer, hopped on drugs or booze of some form, living on the edge waiting for that one bullet to take them out (run into the ground in Hollywood in far too many films), not caring what will happen to them or those around them, and generally wanting to be released from the pain of existence. Most sane people would avoid a twit like this in a heartbeat, but film noir environments seem to be littered with them.

The Professional: Killing is just a job to them. They don't see the opposition as necessarily human, but just as another target. They study the target, it's habits, it's environs, select their weapons with care, set up the hit, preform the job, cover their tracks, then go home and worry about the next job, or simply to sit back and listen to music or whatever people normally do. They tend to be not as common in Cyberpunk settings, with all the other killer types looking at them as a person to look up too, emulate, fear, or try to take down.
Example: Bato or Motoko from Ghost In The Shell

The Wannabe/Mook: You've seen this type before. A gang-banger with a big gun, may or may not be hopped on something, and will wave the gun around to show who's boss. The wannabe usually has enough sense to backdown when faced with much bigger and nastier people. Mooks are the throwaways you tend to see in stories that the hero guns down for being stupid.
Example: Any drugged up gun wielding idiot from most hollywood or hong kong action films (not to mention real life).

Post Cyberpunk: As above with a few notable differences:
The Professional: This by in large is the most common style of Killer you will see in the post cyberpunk setting. Nihilists tend to draw all sorts of bad attention to themselves and usually the heroes are involved in removing said damaged individual from larger society in lethal (or non-lethal) ways. Mooks tend to fill the same function as above.


Medias: The Media of the Cyberpunk/Post-Cyberpunk era would be a recognizable mutation of Gumshoe Reporters, Freelancers, Bloggers/Vloggers, and Mainstream Media. No one trusts News organizations anymore per se. Too many times getting caught pushing shoddy stories for one reason or another (and savaging each other in the data-stream) has done in that concept pretty much permanently..

That being said, people will look at an organization and see how many credible media types they have under their banner, rather than the banner itself. This generates revenue with multimedia access memberships and the equivalent of Paypal donations for media personalities and reporters of their choice. The most successful 'Media-Corps' have learned to just act as a cross between a Internet company (data eats LOTS of bandwidth) and a contracting agency for reporters, providing backing to those who seem to be successful (usually in pay or research staff) but otherwise keeping hands off and letting the reporter go after what story they want.

Cyberpunk:
Freelancers: The freelancer is the most common media type that one would see in the Cyberpunk setting, working the local scene to get his/her three hots and a cot, or following up on a potential break through story to get noticed by the Datastream, increase hits and maybe get a contract. Will push things to the edge to get a good story. Typically addicted to caffeine and smokes. Had probably pissed off at least half-dozen collections of people depending on his beat by intention or omission. But willing to play the game and play it hard to get at what's real. People demand the truth. No, not The Truth (people are immediately suspicious of anything shouted from the rooftops anymore). 'Just The Facts' is a watchword. And whatever it takes to get the story out, as long as it's accurate, they'll do it. C.J. O'Reilly from Cyberpunk 2020 is a example of this

Tabs: Short for Tabloid Reporter (Yes, they still exist and will continue to exist), this reporter works for one of the TabStream clearinghouses on the Grid. They come in the flavor of Reporter (some of the TabStreams figured out that having real reporters on the Site lended Cred), Stalkerazzi (Paparazzi with cybercams, oh joy), Creative Writers (Elvis Is Risen with General Hideki Tojo in Yokohama!! Film at Eleven!!), & Dirtbags (think every bad stereotype of a video reporter and you'll find this guy).

Post Cyberpunk: Pretty much like the above, but with more access to ways to snoop on unsuspecting targets....er 'subjects'. The ethics are probably not much changed other than you have to fight in a even more decentralized Media environment. And the Net is Forever in storing what you do. Pick your stories wisely. Do your research. Death of Credibility is a keystroke away. Spider Jerusulem is a archtype for this sort of media


The Fixer: We all know the Fixer. The Person who Finds Stuff You Want, be it drugs, information, weapons, it all boils down to Getting Access to what's wanted. For a Price.

Cyberpunk: many techno-thrillers have these guys, usually as the main bad guy for the Hero to take, down, usually by rolling through his assorted colorful mooks like a starving wolf through a pork sandwich. Usually kitted out in bling (or at least very well dressed), and thinking they own the world. Usually not given credit for having a brain, which is a pity, because in order to build a criminal empire, you usually have to have some common sense, and the ability to think on your feet when the heat comes down. Usually creating a new drug, controlling drugs, sniffing drugs, testing drugs, and going into high finance or technology for 'legit money'. Usually end up dead from Traitorous Lt or some hackneyed explanation.

Post Cyberpunk: more often than not these will be Data-Brokers of some type as dealing drugs is for the Lower Wad Street Scum types don'cha know? Typically they will have several decker types on the payroll to look up what they need and can pull up ALL of your embarrassing information in short order, have a decent psych profile of you, and have made contingency plans to deal with you if you chose not to play along. They typically try the soft hand first if they think it will work...but do not cross them. They can make your lives hell if they so chose.

Police: The Thin Blue Line does not need to be elaborated much upon, as it is the subject of many crime movie stories and oodles of ideas.

Corporates: The Bane of Most Cyberpunk players, the Corporations are the monolithic faceless personification of 'The Man' in Cyberpunk stories and the major antagonist in most stories. Brutal, unethical, and willing to do anything to gain wealth and power.

In Post-Cyberpunk settings, most corporations aren't quite as vicious, but they will go quite far to obtain what they want, but will try to keep it out of the spotlight (bad press and all that, unless they control the press). People don't like thuggish companies on general principle, so the Corps have to be more circumspect.
Tech dreams of organic toys
And I'm runnin' out on the edge
Soft screams of the rockerboys
Echoing through my head

--Miracle Of Sound, City Of Night

firebug

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« Reply #47 on: <09-19-14/0047:14> »
Holy damn, was that all done by yourself and only partly copied from Wikipedia where quoted?  That's really impressive.  I'm going to save that on my computer for future reference.  I love analysis...es like this.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

TheWanderingJewels

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« Reply #48 on: <09-22-14/1317:58> »
Pretty much. I've had some time to think on it
Tech dreams of organic toys
And I'm runnin' out on the edge
Soft screams of the rockerboys
Echoing through my head

--Miracle Of Sound, City Of Night

Reaver

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« Reply #49 on: <09-22-14/1626:38> »
For what its worth: I am currently working a 41 and 7 rotation. (41 days straight, 7 days off) at 12 hours a day. HOWEVER, I have yet to work a full 41 days.... usually around days 25 to 30 I have to call in "sick" as I am just too tired to pull my ass out of the crappy camp bed and go to work that day...

In the construction industry, 10 to 12 hour days running 14 to 28 days in a row is the norm. Usually followed by 4 to 10 days off....

So while you CAN work excessive shifts,  doing so for extended times can't be maintained for months on end....
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

AndyNakamura

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« Reply #50 on: <09-22-14/1655:39> »
@TheWanderingJewels: Now I want to write a proper Noir Shadowrun mod.

Speaking of which, SR Returns was a pretty proper Noir story.
"If you are expecting a rousing speech, or a cunning plan that will get us out of this, I will have to disappoint you. I don't have any. We either do this, or we die. And the world dies with us."
"I paid quite a lot to get all of you here. I expect you to give me my money's worth. Shogun out."

firebug

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« Reply #51 on: <09-23-14/0259:27> »
I assume you mean "Dead Man Switch" specifically?  Yeah, it had a really good atmosphere for it.  Honestly half the reason I bought that game was to have a more visual idea of the atmosphere of Shadowrun, and it really helped me imagine how the cities and people should look.  Even if it is technically "outdated" by taking place over two decades before the current edition.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

gyrobot

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« Reply #52 on: <09-23-14/0348:13> »
The major difference between Cyberpunk and post cyberpunk is how you go down the rabbit hole to see how far it goes. In cyberpunk, you are simply kicked into it, forced to look at the bottomless abyss. In post cyberpunk you went down with a rope, but the rope is slowly gnawing away and you are unaware of it.

TheWanderingJewels

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« Reply #53 on: <10-04-14/1623:55> »
Shadowrun leans heavily on Film Noir Styling with some post-cyberpunk/Transhumanist tropes thrown in for good measure as far as tone as concerned. But a few things do stick out that should be mentioned

1. Our Corps are Always Bastards: Seriously, is there one corporation in Shadowrun that does not make The Umbrella Corporation from Resident Evil look like Amateurs in the Complete Bastard Department? In Cyberpunk 2013/2020 verse, Corps were just in it for the money. Granted they would break legs and kill for it, but they did not go in for Weyland-Yutani level of evil as a matter of course. Are their any megas which aren't complete bastards in SR?

2. Corps got Nukes: Okay, who in their right mind thought it would be a good idea for Megacorps to get tactical nuclear and thermo-nuclear technology? One, maintaining security for such tech is always expensive.  Two, nation states are going to look at economic conglomerates that have no loyalty to them very dimly as they have access to wealth they'd love to tax. If it got out that they had nukes, it's not very hard to see them agitating for the corps to turn the nukes over to more 'responsible actors'. Particularly with all the sub tactical nukes that have gone off on SR earth.

3. Corporate armies can always outmatch national armies: Um.....no. Economically speaking, Corporations are very vulnerable organizations, sensitive to what products move, and which ones do not, thus always having to eat the costs of product that don't move. Nation states do not and can tax the crap out of people or just crank deficit spending when going on a military training spree. Corps might have higher tech for themselves, but national states have much deeper pockets for sheer amounts of materials to be purchased. And if one of the nation states get's pushed to the edge, they will go all out on the corp, which in spite of better gear, Does not have the numbers to make the difference. And if said corp lights off a nuke, that corp is probably going to be anathema very quickly. Delicate tension is probably more likely between extra-national corps and the Remaining nation states
« Last Edit: <10-05-14/1122:04> by TheWanderingJewels »
Tech dreams of organic toys
And I'm runnin' out on the edge
Soft screams of the rockerboys
Echoing through my head

--Miracle Of Sound, City Of Night