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Shadowspells is out

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Killstring

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« Reply #45 on: <09-26-14/1548:22> »
yeah, i got some ideas for some seriously nasty vampires lol
That brings a smile to my face...and I didn't even have anything to do with the book.

Noted! I'd wondered if you had a say in it, advisory or otherwise.

Because WAMPYRS. OMG scary wampyrs.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #46 on: <09-26-14/1608:43> »
yeah, i got some ideas for some seriously nasty vampires lol
That brings a smile to my face...and I didn't even have anything to do with the book.
Thoughts in my head included "Patrick will like these" when reading them.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

ProfGast

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« Reply #47 on: <09-26-14/1744:20> »
Couple things I'd like confirmation on…

Is the Adept Power Enthralling Performance just making Artisan and Gymnastics capable of doing what the "Performance" skill does in the core book?  Or is it something different?

Also: Has anyone else found the Jackpointer discussions in Shadow Spells a little out of character?   I mean Man of Many names putting an entry in Street Grimoire was a bit unlikely but they do have a fun tongue-in-cheek response about that in the aboriginal tradition description. 
Elijah seemed unusually combative in a few of his comments, especially towards Sticks and Netcat. 
And then there was Bull coming back at Man of Many names with a "get with the modern technology" type comment on clocks.  That one felt more Slamm-O! appropriate to me.

Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #48 on: <09-26-14/1831:59> »
Thoughts in my head included "Patrick will like these" when reading them.
Patrick still needs to read them. Maybe tonight....
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Digital_Viking

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« Reply #49 on: <09-26-14/1905:01> »
 
Elijah seemed unusually combative in a few of his comments, especially towards Sticks and Netcat. 


Due to events in Shadowrun: Fire and Frost
"Which is better and which is worse,I wonder - To understand or to not understand?"
"Understanding is always worse. To not understand is to never carry the burden of responsibility. Understanding is pain. But anything less is unacceptable."

Dangersaurus

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« Reply #50 on: <09-26-14/1938:59> »
It's strange that the same people who have two distinct product lines that managed to come up with different versions of the same power in separate publications are somehow also so coordinated that they can play a shell game across two books with traditions.

CGL is a big company. Or is it a small company? I guess it depends on the what the excuse-of-the-week needs to be.

Ryo

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« Reply #51 on: <09-26-14/1954:49> »
Back on the actual topic for a bit...

What is up with the [Element] Grenade spells? It says it uses Magic + (Tradition Attribute) (3) to put the spell on target. Why isn't this a Magic+Spellcasting test? Do you roll Magic+Spellcasting first, then roll Magic + Attribute? Or do you skip the Spellcasting roll entirely?

Either way, this makes [Element] Grenade an amazingly potent spell. If you roll Magic+Spellcasting first, then you're adding net hits to damage unopposed. If you don't roll Spellcasting at all, then it's a spell any magician build can take, even if they don't bother with the Spellcasting skill, like dedicated conjurers.

Also, [Sense] Link really needs a line that says you can't target spells through it. Without that line, that is immediately what a mage will want to use it for.
« Last Edit: <09-26-14/1958:05> by Ryo »

8-bit

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« Reply #52 on: <09-26-14/1956:18> »
Back on the actual topic for a bit...

What is up with the [Element] Grenade spells? It says it uses Magic + (Tradition Attribute) (3) to put the spell on target. Why isn't this a Magic+Spellcasting test? Do you roll Magic+Spellcasting first, then roll Magic + Attribute? Or do you skip the Spellcasting roll entirely?

Either way, this makes [Element] Grenade an amazingly potent spell. If you roll Magic+Spellcasting first, then you're adding net hits to damage unopposed. If you don't roll Spellcasting at all, then it's a spell any magician build can take, even if they don't bother with the Spellcasting skill, like dedicated conjurers.

Especially since a dedicated Conjurer is most likely a Charisma tradition and an Elf with maxed out Charisma. That's Magic (usually 6) + 8. Pretty strong if you ask me.

Taejix

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« Reply #53 on: <09-26-14/2159:16> »
So, my thoughts on the new Adept powers.

Demara: Both interesting and useful. Being able to grab any skill at 1 has all sorts of applications, but the time required versus the duration keeps it from getting out of hand. Seems just right price wise too.

Eidetic Sense Memory: Overpriced. Seriously, remembering stuff comes up very rarely in most games. In Shadowrun, where everyone and their mother walks about with recording equipment active? This is a niche power. Needs to be dropped down to 0.25, though I'd suggest lower if that were actually possible.

Enthralling Performance: Useful and reasonably priced. Again, sensible limits on the effect keep it from being too powerful whilst still allowing you to use it to great effect. Anyone who can't think of a use for the highly distracting adept isn't trying hard enough. I particularly like the open ended range of skills that can be used with it.

Heightened Concentration: Spelling error in the name. Could do with clarifying the duration. Useful, though the complex action required to activate it keeps Adept Centering as the preferable option and roughly in line with it's cost.

Indomitable Will:
Another niche power, though at least it's priced reasonably. To be honest though, most Adepts are going to have no room to take this. I'd recommend adding some sort of minor secondary effect to this, something to either give a bit more general applicability or make it cool enough that people will want to take it anyway.

Iron Gut:
See Natural Immunity in the core book? See how it gives the same bonus, for the same price but also works on other stuff as well and is thus more likely to come up? See how even then not many people will take it because it still doesn't come up much and has cheap gear that does pretty much the same thing or better? Yeah, this is a waste of word count.

Iron Lungs: Niche but cheap again. Still, even 0.25 is a substantial commitment and this is pretty minor. Perhaps boost the time you can hold your breath for and have it confer immunity to decompression sickness or something? A lot of these niche passive powers suffer from the fact that they're just too minor even at minimal cost and for 0.25 you can get more active powers that both do cooler things and are more likely to come up.

Iron Will: Why on earth is this 0.5 per level? Yes, mind control is nasty, but it's now the same price as Spell Resistance, which covers the majority of mind control and every other spell as well. Having it cover adept powers and non-spell critter powers is not worth making it so expensive. It'd be justified at 0.25.

Keratin Control: This is a very niche but flavourful ability, weighed down by taking longer than the mundane alternative unless you half kill yourself with stun damage and costing 0.5 PP. Seriously, you're growing your hair and nails out, you can get extensions quicker than this power and to do much it needs other powers and skills to back it up.

Living Focus: Pretty cool. It's expensive, and that penalty is harsh, but Adept Centering coverth a multitude of sins and it's a powerful effect. You won't see this commonly but for certain concepts or in a Ki Focus? Worth it. One thing I would like cleared up is who controls the effects of the spell? If the mage casts levitate on an adept with this power, who determines where the adept moves? And how does this affect the astral signature? Because if the Adept is fueling the spell now, should he be in control of it? Otherwise you could just buy your mage buddy another sustaining focus.

Maintain Warmth: Minor, niche, but for once they did the sensible thing and made it a static effect instead of a scaling +1. Most characters won't use this, but it's strong enough when it does come up for me to see someone taking it if it fits their character.

Memory Displacement: See above. These niche 0.25 powers are a lot better than the scaling ones, simply because they make up for the rarity of their use by actually having a substantial effect.

Piercing Senses: Or you could take Spell Resistance. At least it's better than Iron Will in that it's actually cheaper than Spell Resistance.

Power Swimming: Seriously? 1 PP? This is a pretty hefty effect, true, but how often will it actually come up? Not often enough to justify that sort of price tag. Make it 0.5 and it fits into the realm of powerful but niche. Right now it's just a waste unless you're playing a campaign that regularly cares about how fast you can swim.

Rooting: You might have gotten the idea that I dislike these ultra-niche scaling powers. This is still true. This is going to come up so infrequently that it's hard to justify spending more that 0.25-0.5 PP on it, and the benefits at that level aren't really going to make too much difference even if they come up. At least it's not just a +1 dice bonus. I will point out that it penalises Block, Dodge and Parry, but not Full Defence or your normal defence test. Apparently you can still dodge bullets perfectly well while rooted to the spot.

Supernatural Toughness:
There aren't many ways to give extra damage boxes. It could stand to be a bit cheaper, maybe 0.75 or something, but it's not completely unreasonable as is. Someone is going to want to take it at least.
« Last Edit: <09-26-14/2202:56> by Taejix »

MijRai

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« Reply #54 on: <09-26-14/2204:03> »
Didn't 4th Edition Iron Gut reduce Lifestyle costs by a percentage or something?  Basically, by making a character able to eat more things, it cut down on food costs?
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Tarislar

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« Reply #55 on: <09-26-14/2304:50> »
Personally I do agree with you about the Living Focus though as I've already stated.  But some seem to think its great.  YMMV I guess.

I'm thinking if you go all the way & pick up Heightened (Concern) Concentration its not so bad at all.
Sure its 1.5 power points total, BUT, if you basically have your mage cast a Combat Sense spell w/ 4-5 successes on you then that is 2-2.5 point of power.  And the ability to change that power to whatever buff spell is on hand can't be ignored either.
True its only while your awake on the mission but its a solid boost for the most important time to be using it, at the cost of not having it while your at the grocery store.



Tarislar

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« Reply #56 on: <09-26-14/2306:00> »
I thought all the adept powers were over costed and underpowered, AGAIN.  I don't think there's a single one I would take. 

I see the Adepts Powers of Eidetic Sense Memory, Enthralling Performance, Heightened Concentration + Living Focus, & Supernatural Toughness as all being solid options.

Tarislar

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« Reply #57 on: <09-26-14/2322:12> »
What is up with the [Element] Grenade spells? It says it uses Magic + (Tradition Attribute) (3) to put the spell on target. Why isn't this a Magic+Spellcasting test? Do you roll Magic+Spellcasting first, then roll Magic + Attribute? Or do you skip the Spellcasting roll entirely?
Seems like its in place of spellcasting.
As for a Conjurer using it, don't think Conjurer's can learn a spell.  If now RAW its certainly RAI.

8-bit

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« Reply #58 on: <09-26-14/2322:56> »
What is up with the [Element] Grenade spells? It says it uses Magic + (Tradition Attribute) (3) to put the spell on target. Why isn't this a Magic+Spellcasting test? Do you roll Magic+Spellcasting first, then roll Magic + Attribute? Or do you skip the Spellcasting roll entirely?
Seems like its in place of spellcasting.
As for a Conjurer using it, don't think Conjurer's can learn a spell.  If now RAW its certainly RAI.

I'm 90% sure he means someone is a full magician who mainly focuses on conjuring.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #59 on: <09-27-14/0357:54> »
Good point on Living Focus, the multiple ways to reduce penalties would allow an Adept to get a really nice buff-spell without caring. Mages running out of casting dice when using illusions repeatedly happens here, so this would really help. Heck, the Mystic Adept may want to take this one in the future.
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