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Owning a Trained Hound

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Lethal Joke

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« on: <11-09-14/0020:42> »
I don't know if I should put this in here or in the rules, so I'll just hazard a guess.

While the stats for a dog are listed in the core rulebook and you can find the strange and fairly useless stats for a "clockwork greyhound" in the Vladivostok Gauntlet game stats, there is nothing concerning the price of a dog, or of upkeep on a dog.

Or how much it might cost to turn a hound into a 'biodrone' of sorts - I imagine any cyberware would have similar costs.

8-bit

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« Reply #1 on: <11-09-14/0033:36> »
Just as a preface, all the rules are in SR4A's Augmentation for biodrones.

Assuming you don't want an actual biodrone that would require a stirrup interface, then you just install any 'ware at similar costs.

Quote from: Augmentation; page 152
Biodrone Implants

Most enhancement technologies available for metahumans are also available for biodrones—at similar Essence and nuyen costs. The gamemaster has final say on whether a specific implant—be it cyber-, bio-, or nanoware—is available. Animal genetech enhancements are typically further developed than their metahuman counterparts, because the specimen lifetime and thus research turnaround time is shorter. The cost for all genetech enhancements is reduced by 20%, except for animals with long natural maturing cycles and lifetimes (e.g., large sharks, great cats, elephants, whales).

Also note that biodrones are, almost without exception, subject to a fitness regimen and well-trained. This means that biodrones will normally be exceptionally physically fit, and those whose potential has been enhanced with genetic treatments will likely have realized their full growth potential in the relevant enhanced attributes.

It should be noted that critters (normal animals included) have Essence limits (6, typically, if I remember correctly) and so there is only so much 'ware you can put into them. They also may develop cyberpsychoses due to excess 'ware. That is not a good thing if you have a crazy super cybered hound next to you.

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As for costs on upkeep/price; I have no idea. I would hazard a guess at a 10% increase in Lifestyle rent (cumulative with everything else). Probably have to get permits or figure something out for Low and Middle Lifestyles, they might not like pets. I would guess the price is subjective; I have no idea what a dog goes for today.

Namikaze

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« Reply #2 on: <11-09-14/0042:24> »
Your question takes a huge leap from owning a dog to owning a biodrone.  A biodrone is a hugely different thing.  In 4th edition, the rules for biodrones came out with Augmentation and since the equivalent book(s) hasn't been published yet, I'd say we'll have to wait to get hard-and-fast rules on them.  As far as natural pets and animals go, it's purely a GM call.  It's always been that way.  Even with Augmentation's chimera pet rules, the price is listed as 10,000¥+, which means it's purely a GM decision.  Game information about pets and critters and such didn't come out in 4th edition until Running Wild, which wasn't a core book.  As such, it's unlikely that we'll get a Running Wild equivalent any time soon, if ever.
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Lethal Joke

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« Reply #3 on: <11-09-14/0051:07> »
Well, it wasn't really one question taking a leap. It was one question with another question that I thought up as I was asking the first.
I do that quite often, actually.

I don't know what owning a pet costs, either.

Thanks for the intel, anyway. I doubt any of my players is inventive enough to come up with anything like that (if they even know it's possible.)
I just got curious and wanted to know what rules there were regarding pets.

Namikaze

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« Reply #4 on: <11-09-14/0302:24> »
In the past, I've always said that pet upkeep is based on your lifestyle.  This is easier if you are using the Advanced Lifestyle rules from Runner's Companion, and they will likely be completely revamped with Run Faster, but the rule of thumb I've used is that you get to pick the lifestyle of your pets.  If you pick a 0, then your pet has to hunt for their own food and lives outdoors.  If you pick 5 points, then they live like royalty.  A 2 is sufficient for what most Americans consider good quality of life for their pet - yearly or bi-yearly visits to the vet, consistent food and water supply, and a shelter.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #5 on: <11-09-14/0634:01> »
Use running wild, it still is great. Only problem is the training thresholds, which do not make sense in 5 under limited extended opposed tests, so cut them in half as base and then think about slight adjustments?
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Tarislar

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« Reply #6 on: <11-09-14/1630:16> »
I like the 10% for "Guests" lifestyle option myself makes fairly solid sense IMHO.

But what I'm curious about is the price for some Meta-Creatures.
Like how much is a Hell Hound puppy if your willing to invest in training one?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #7 on: <11-09-14/1738:53> »
10.000 nuyen untrained. 200.000 with combat training. High lifestyle required, 500 nuyen/month costs. 2.000 nuyen yearly license.
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Lethal Joke

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« Reply #8 on: <11-09-14/1801:03> »
10.000 nuyen untrained. 200.000 with combat training. High lifestyle required, 500 nuyen/month costs. 2.000 nuyen yearly license.

Not for the budget-conscious, meta-creature pets.
Good I don't have to worry about it. I can just throw wild ones at my players at my leisure.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: <11-09-14/1816:10> »
Dogs are cheap though. :) 100+, Middle (Necessities) Lifestyle and 100/month. License is 10/year if you get a cheap cloned 100-nuyen dog, and if you were to say get a dog that's 10x as much you're still out 1k once, 100 per year and 100 per month so 1.300/year.
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Lethal Joke

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« Reply #10 on: <11-09-14/1821:06> »
Dogs are cheap though. :) 100+, Middle (Necessities) Lifestyle and 100/month. License is 10/year if you get a cheap cloned 100-nuyen dog, and if you were to say get a dog that's 10x as much you're still out 1k once, 100 per year and 100 per month so 1.300/year.
Doable. I might even present the option to my players. Most of them own dogs.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #11 on: <11-09-14/1825:17> »
By the way, since Run Faster isn't out yet we don't have advanced lifestyles yet. If your players have Low Lifestyles and still want a dog, you could simply give them partial-Middle (in space+food) for +500 nuyen/month. It'd be 600 under SR4's system, and 500 if you half the workshop costs in SR5, so 500 seems close enough to whatever value SR5 may end up and is a nicer number. If they have Middle+ it of course isn't a problem at all.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #12 on: <11-10-14/0045:30> »
Just watched an episode of "Shark Tank" in which a guy and his wife sought funding for his dog training academy.  He provides a personal consultation, finds the client's needs, and hand-picks the dog for the client.  He then trains the dog in a number of security techniques.  The lowest price for his service: $20,000.  The highest price is $40,000.  Bear in mind that he only picks from four breeds, including some that are in use by the US Army and US Special Forces.  So the dogs themselves aren't exactly cheap.

But for a pound puppy, I'd say that it's not unreasonable to ask about $200 to cover the pound's expenses, licensing, tracking chip (RFID tag), and some starter gear like food and training pads.  Afterward, the percentage-based lifestyle increase makes a lot of sense.

Obviously there are a LOT of variables, even when talking about just dogs, and some cats.  When you start to get into some of the more exotic non-paracritters the costs can be truly staggering.  This is part of the reason why the books have always given the GM a LOT of leeway when making these kinds of decisions.  It's a lot like the thread about buying bicycles and other items that aren't in the book.  The only really good answer is this: GM call.  The GM should be making at least a semi-educated decision, and the GM should be making this decision with the full understanding of the player's intentions and goals in mind.

For instance, if the player wants a dog now but plans on making that dog into a biodrone, the GM should probably explain that biodrones can't be made out of every specimen and sometimes increased costs are necessary to get just the right dog.  Without that information, the GM is making a decision that will come back to bite someone in the ass - perhaps literally.
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Shaidar

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« Reply #13 on: <11-10-14/0151:30> »
Chihuahua Biodrone, anyone?

Lethal Joke

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« Reply #14 on: <11-10-14/0219:45> »
Chihuahua Biodrone, anyone?
The perfect cyberhound to hunt down those pesky devil rats hiding in your walls!