[farfromnice]

normally, as a GM, I think that I am good a defending myself from Matrix and Mundane attack

but a sector where I'm unimaginative is astral and magic security. I'm tired to put only astral wall, astral vine and spirits to protect my research facility and other things

does people have good ideas or maybe there GM put some pretty thing in front of them ?

[Michael Chandra]

Hell Hounds are dual-natured and can be trained to have higher skills than the book lists, Barghasts make for nasty guard critters with their paralyzing howl and ability to Fear, there can be glowmoss that lights up when something astral comes nearby and triggers an alarm, and you could simply make the place a nasty experiment where the basement has a rather horrendous background count in it.

Critter Powers are especially dangerous because they cannot be counterspelled, which makes them rather nasty for mages.

[farothel]

If you really want to protect something from astral stuff, put it underground.  You can't go underground astrally, except through air holes (like elevator shafts).  Those you protect by high grade wards, spirits on guard and some sort of glowmoss alarm thing.

[Namikaze]

Both of these are great suggestions, and if you put hell hounds or other dual-natured critters above ground, but the facility underground, you'll give the mage in your group a hell of a challenge.  The new Aetherology book gives a LOT of good ideas for really advanced evil stuff that you can put in your game too.  Some of these things aren't really forces you can fight against, either - like a mana ebb.  Might be an interesting game for the group to try to re-aspect some territory as well.  Magical content is great for games when you want to reward your players with more karma than normal, but less nuyen than normal (so-called "Robin Hood" games).

[Dr. Meatgrinder]

For high-value targets (like something a shadowrunner team would hit), remember the target has home field advantage.  We tend to forget ritual magic because it's not as useful for shadowrunners, but if you have the home ground (and corporate funding for reagents) some rituals can be really cool.  Watchers (yes, they're spirits, but they don't take as many resources to create as regular spirits do to bind), all the fun kinds of Wards, Kything (forces astral forms to manifest--this is a nice surprise for the mage who thinks he can solve all his problems by projecting).  It looks like Kything requires an initiate, though (it's under the Sensing school, p. 155, Street Grimoire), as do some of the wards, and Kything doesn't last too long.

[farfromnice]

I had one of my players , in SR4, who stak a camouflage armor, an insibility spell and the spirit power concealment

It make a lot of malus to see that bastard

any thoughts on that ?

[Michael Chandra]

Astral Perception would have zero penalties against them, so all they'd have is their normal Sneaking. There's also tripwires, pressure plates and such. Also airlock doors. If a door opens but nobody is visible, you'd close and gas them.

Besides, cameras roll 9 dice versus Invisibility, and if the corridor is straight without the ability to hide there would be no possibility of rolling Stealth versus the camera. Which means that if it pierces the Invisibility it will spot him in such a location. In other locations, such as an office, he'd still get to roll a sneaking test which means the armor and Concealment actually help.

A camera has ~1/7 odds versus 5 hits and ~1/24 odds versus 6 hits, so given a number of cameras inside a facility there's a decent shot one will spot him if they designed the place smart enough. Also, audible Perception would simply be penalized by the Concealment so I hope he's good in sneaking.

[Lucean]

But just because the camera might spot you, there's still hope that nobody's realizing it at that moment. Coffee breaks, interesting news on the trid or a sports game as well as having too many cameras to watch at the same time can all pose enough distraction.

[Michael Chandra]

That's assuming there isn't an Agent watching over the systems and identifying trespassers. That way you'll have to combine the sneaking with a hacker that makes the system believe the sneaker is legit.

I need to point something out though: OP asked for ways to deal with a player like that. I offered methods. So while yes, each method has obvious downsides, that's not really what matters here, there's no need to go 'add complication X to give the player a break' when the entire idea is to actually give the player a hard time for once.

[farothel]

You can have a spirit that can conceal you on the astral as well.  At least in 4th you have.  The armour mod won't help you, but having the spirit conceal you also on the astral can help some.

[Herr Brackhaus]

5th Edition Concealment is a Physical power, which means it won't work on the Astral. The spells Manascape and/or Invisibiliy are both Mana spells however, and could conceivably work.

[Michael Chandra]

The 'dual-natured can conceal themselves+others from astral detection' clause was not copied to SR5. Invisibility works against Physical detection so wouldn't work against astral detection since your aura is still visible on the astral.

[farfromnice]

normally it was an advanced invisibility spell, the description said something like : bend light, not an illusion

it means laser and cameras will not see the player. Microwave or sonar sensor and other nasty thing like that will but come the Spirit concealing them. As I understand them spirit are concealing from being seen and being heard, the moment it call a spirit with 7 of force I said to my self : Ha ! crap

most guard don't have enough perception to see through a concealment of 7

pressure plate and old fashion trip wire can solve the problem "is there someone in my facility ?" but don't solve the problem " how I'm suppose to shoot at it"

the Airlock door is a good one though

[Michael Chandra]

it means laser and cameras will not see the player.

The cameras would still get to resist with Object Resistance 9. If they succeed they pierce the Invisibility because it fails to fool them.

[farfromnice]

the last time they do something like that I drop Awaken Vine from the roof in all the corridor of the facility. Each time something with an awaken aura pass threw the vine they died so the security was able to "see" where they were/go

after that I bomb them with smoke grenade with glow moss particles, it was not the best solution but it was enough to make them improvised. So they blow a wall and jump at which point the security had enough evidence of dangers to call Knight Errant for support