Core p. 394
"Whenever a critter flies, rends something with its claws, or paralyzes a target with a mere touch, it’s using a critter power. Powers are the special abilities that a critter possesses. Some critter powers are natural, such as their claws or tough skin. Others, such as a barghest’s Paralyzing Howl, are magical in nature.
In order for a critter to use a power against a target, they have to be in the same state, either astral or physical. Astral forms cannot affect physical targets, and
physical forms cannot affect astral targets (see The Astral World, p. 312). An astral critter that can materialize can affect physical targets if they do so, however, and dual-natured critters can interact with the astral plane as easily as the physical one.
Core p. 399
"A dual-natured critter with a melee Natural Weapon, can use this power against astral targets that are within its reach. Use the critter’s normal Unarmed Combat skill and physical Damage Value for this attack. [...]
Critters without a Natural Weapon may still make an unarmed attack."
You have to apply a very strict reading to not allow normal unarmed attacks to count as natural weapons.
Your other point is refuted by the bolded, underlined text.
I will grant that a reasonable reading would operate more generously, and a very generous but not unreasonable one would act as you say, and will concede the point... though it does not get around the other issues a dual natured creature faces, merely allows them to reasonably be competent at astral combat, which is not nearly enough to make it anything but a drastic negative.
@ Voro: No, it doesn't that's for astral forms, not perceiving or dual natured forms. I believe this has already been errata'D somewhere, or maybe it was just a developer clarifying, in which case I'm sure it's on Patrick's list
To my knowledge, it has not been errata'd. If that is something that is errata'd by Patrick and Co., that's great. However, until then, the text found
here stands
This is what I mean, guys. Everyone who's played the game for any length of time knows that. That's how it's always worked.
Appeal to tradition. This is not 4th, 3rd, or any other edition of Shadowrun, and the purpose of edition breaks is to allow previous concepts to be discarded or kept in order to keep the game as enjoyable as possible.
5th has some good ideas vs 4th, but it's not the best edited, that's why Patrick's work is required. And here you are, in a post about errata, using the unclearness on a particular page (and your own rules lawyering) to argue something shouldn't be errata'd.
I am, in fact, in a thread for discussing errata, arguing that a proposed errata is a bad idea. This is not a change to improve clarity, or improve editing. This is a change to bring Shifters back to what they were in previous editions, which I wholeheartedly feel is a negative gameplay change for shifters, and prevents a subset of interesting characters from being played effectively in a 6th world sprawl. I can think of no better place to voice my opinions and arguments about this errata than the thread about said errata.
Shapeshifters are dual natured. Always have been. Always will be. Makes a lot of thematic sense. Everyone who picked up Run Faster knew that was an omission. Regeneration, we were less sure of because of the changes to Infected. But anyway, no, being dual natured isn't going to get your character eaten by the astral bogie men. Lots and lots of things are dual natured.
Let it go.
No, Shifters were dual natured in 4th edition and prior. They were notably not dual natured in 5th edition. The nature of edition breaks allows changes like that to occur, particularly when it improved gameplay. Unless the Dual Natured critter power is changed, adding it to shifters reduces gameplay options for them dramatically to completely. And, as others have noted, it comes entirely out of place. Apparently, the chapter in which Shifters are located has only been reached by the errata team very, very recently, but these changes have been in place far longer, which admittedly gives me worries about the motives behind it compared to what I feel are the appropriate means of approaching errata.
You have done very little to demonstrate that dual natured in it's current incarnation is not a crippling setback, particularly when the only gain is Regeneration, and doubly so when paired with a powerful allergy and Vulnerability to something people can make bullets out of. If Patrick and Co. wish to change Dual Natured as well, to make creatures with it functional in the sprawl, or if someone can actually demonstrate why the majority of my arguments are invalid, then I'm happy to step back from this issue. However, at this time, no changes have been proposed to Dual Natured as far as I am aware, and the only point I have been proven incorrect on is how dual natured creatures approach Astral Combat.
In any case,
please stop telling me that I do not understand the game or that my opinion is invalid simply because I did not play previous editions. Previous editions are not relevant to the mechanics and functionality of this setting. While a common thread in lore and setting is excellent for the health of a tabletop game, it is not paramount, nor does it eclipse the need for the mechanics to be functional, as myriad changes made in other aspects of the gameplay and setting from 4th to 5th have proven.
