NEWS

Agent Cluster - would that really work?

  • 66 Replies
  • 24870 Views

ScytheKnight

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1911
« Reply #45 on: <02-05-15/1840:28> »
Me personally I would read that the program is Agent, and no I don't care how many times you can split a hair to say Agent rating 3 is a different program to Agent rating 4 with hand-waving and rule lawyering, an Agent program is an Agent program... to me seems pretty clear cut as the ONLY reason to care any different is for shenanigans.
From To<<Matrix message>>
"Speech"
Thoughts
Astral
Mentor

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4471
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #46 on: <02-05-15/2215:21> »
Maybe, maybe not.  The wording of agents - "Each agent occupies one program slot on your deck." - does seem to imply that you can run multiple, no matter that it says you can only run one copy of each program; as the guideline goes, specific rule overrides general rule.  I can understand why a GM wouldn't want it the other way, but considering that by running any agent at all, you're opening your deck up for damage from another route, and for multiple agents, multiple routes, well - it's sort of a self-controlling issue.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

ScytheKnight

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1911
« Reply #47 on: <02-05-15/2238:23> »
I think that's more to define it as a Program rather than being something unique that a deck could run seperartely.
From To<<Matrix message>>
"Speech"
Thoughts
Astral
Mentor

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4471
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #48 on: <02-05-15/2255:49> »
"Specific rules override general rules."  Therefore, seeing as you cannot run multiple copies of the same program, but each agent takes up one slot on your deck, you can run multiple agents (just not copies of the same agent; se my thought on that above), each one taking one slot.  An agent may be a program (general), but each agent takes up one program slot (specific).  *shrugs*  It seems to be in the 'table ruling' zone, but it also seems to be a self-correcting issue.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Lucean

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
« Reply #49 on: <02-06-15/0124:18> »
For specific to beat general, the former has to specify the general rule it overrules. And that is not done.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4471
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #50 on: <02-06-15/0125:57> »
No, it doesn't specify the general rule - I guess because it happens to be blatantly obvious.  Sorry, Lucean, no room for pedantry here.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

ScytheKnight

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1911
« Reply #51 on: <02-06-15/0138:28> »
Some might say you're being pedantic as well mate.

To me I just ask the question of what seems the more sensible?

That you can install multiple Agent programs at different ratings because that makes them different programs.

That the rules are clarifying that an Agent takes up one program slot regardless of rating.

*shrugs* to me seems the later is the more sensible.
From To<<Matrix message>>
"Speech"
Thoughts
Astral
Mentor

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4471
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #52 on: <02-06-15/0214:40> »
I suppose, yes, I am - but the question is blatantly, even willfully, obtuse: "Well, WHAT RULE is it overriding??"  Uh ... the one we've been talking about the entire time, y'know?

The rule doesn't say the agent takes up one slot regardless of rating; ALL programs take up only one slot.  The rule says that, and I quote, "Each agent occupies one program slot on your deck."  While I agree there is wiggle room there - which is why I've said it looks like it'll be a per-table thing - it DOES say 'each agent', which bears a strong and clear implication of one being capable of running multiple agents.  Otherwise, 'twould say 'the agent', or 'an agent program', such as 'An agent occupies one program slot on your deck,' with the clear implication that you can only have AN agent - 'an' meaning 'one'.

But geez, there's no bloody question as to what the general rule is ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Lucean

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
« Reply #53 on: <02-06-15/0221:13> »
Wyrm, but implications are what distinguishes RAW from RAI. So you might be right assuming multiple agents are fine, but alas, we can't be sure.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4471
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #54 on: <02-06-15/2248:45> »
Uh, yes we can.  Because if it were standard, it wouldn't even have to repeat itself.  Instead, it says 'each agent'.  While it does not explicitly state that you can run multiple agents, it says that 'each agent takes up one program slot'.  For people who speak standard English, that's stating that you can run more than one agent, each one taking up a slot.  I'm sorry you disagree, but that's the way it is.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

ScytheKnight

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1911
« Reply #55 on: <02-06-15/2352:57> »
Except that it flies in the face of the standing rule of "One copy of a program" and could just as easily be a typo, or an edit holdover, or any number of reasons why idiotic idiosyncrasies like the defense penalty against AoE attacks, except there is no defense against AoE attacks.
From To<<Matrix message>>
"Speech"
Thoughts
Astral
Mentor

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4471
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #56 on: <02-07-15/0031:57> »
... which is the general rule that the specific rule overrides - like certain firearms, spells, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Lucean

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
« Reply #57 on: <02-07-15/0846:19> »
Uh, yes we can.  Because if it were standard, it wouldn't even have to repeat itself.  Instead, it says 'each agent'.  While it does not explicitly state that you can run multiple agents, it says that 'each agent takes up one program slot'.  For people who speak standard English, that's stating that you can run more than one agent, each one taking up a slot.  I'm sorry you disagree, but that's the way it is.
But there is another possibility how to interpret it:
Each Agent takes one slot, regardless of its rating, to prevent people from thinking they would need program slots equal to their rating.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4471
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #58 on: <02-07-15/1425:29> »
Which, again, would use either 'an agent', or else 'regardless of rating'.  Your interpretation is significantly less likely.

In any case.  YMMV.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

DWC

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
« Reply #59 on: <02-10-15/1039:43> »
Who says you only need to have one deck?  When you can spend 1k on an S-B Microskimmer that will run an Agent and another cyberprogram, you can easily get together the hardware to run large numbers of agents and dodge the whole issue of running multiple agents from the same device.