[Volker]

Too impatient! Sorry

[Sabato Kuroi]

I think a mage can astrally project through water(at least in 4th edition I think it was possible).He definitely can astrally perceive through water right?

Maybe my memory plays tricks on me

[Volker]

I might be wrong of course. I thought it was like I described. If I'm wrong ...
@GM: please tell me so and also tell me in detail how it is.
@players: please imagine bnc never said it. She's brilliant in magic theory and wouldn't be wrong on such a basic subject.

[Sabato Kuroi]

@Volker

To be honest, since bnc's explanation makes sense, it could be a valid opinion that many magical theorists would share.It doesn't have to be the only truth in order to be valid.We're talking about the bottom of the ocean, not the bottom of a lake and extreme environmental conditions are known to affect magic.

[Volker]

I disagree. We're not talking about a dice pool in Magic Theory of 4 or 5. We're talking about 13. I'm pretty sure if you have the knowledge of a Harvard professor (for lower semesters, admittedly) you should know whether it's possible to dive during astral projection. It's nothing you wouldn't know about like, say, the origin of spirits. It's an empricial fact that is very easy to check. It's as if a professor with a dice pool of 13 in physics wouldn't know whether wood would melt or burn if you heat it.

[Sabato Kuroi]

Basic knowledge about water and astral sight/projection - yes
But knowledge about the depth of oceans where there is a whole different awakened ecosystem?Even if astral projection is possible, it is very dangerous since there are many dual natured creatures and the Sea Dragon is not very friendly.

I think the 5th edition leaves things vague for a reason but I could be wrong.

[Volker]

So, at which dice pool would you think somebody would know that kind of things? A knowledge skill should be about what somebody knows. If a dice pool of 13 can't even tell you whether it's possible to project to some place, what's the knowledge skill for?

[Sabato Kuroi]

If it's  something  the devs have left vague in purpose, then only the GM can answer your question.

The way I see it,hermetic knowledge cant answer all questions when it comes to magic.

Not saying this is the case with water and astral projection though.There may be a definite answer on that , I jusr can't remember what it is

[Volker]

I agree on all terms. So let's see what the master of the universe decrees. We could discuss other matters IC-wise in the meanwhile. Like if you need any more information or whether we should ask Schmitt about magical security.

[SgtBoomCloud]

Current list of things I want to pick up.  Might be added or edited later.

Item	Availability	Price	Rating	ETA
Securetech PPP Legs kit	6	300	-	1 Day
Machine Pistol Clip Speed Loader	-	25	-	<1 Day
Gel rounds x160	2r	400	-	1 Day
Ares Crusader II spare clips x 10	4	50	-	<1 Day
Silencer	9F - only if I can get hold on it	500	-	1 Day
Trauma Patch	6	500	-	1 Day
Plastic Restraints x 40	-	20	-	<1 Day
Rent	1 extra Months worth	2500
Stick n Shock x40 (for Savelette Guardian)	6R	320	-	1 Day
Total		4615 Nuyen		Around 2 Days

..I think that's about it..hmm

[Jack_Spade]

Wow, typically - I spent the whole day at a seminary and everyone posts at breakneck speed 

Hopefully, I haven't missed anything:

- Purchases:
Ok for everything, but i'm pretty sure the speed loader is for a revolver.
The server costs 300 Nuyen rent
I rule the cost for water, food etc. in your lifestyle are 10% per person of the base cost (since that's the additional cost if you share a lifestyle)

- Underwater magic
The effect is certainly not as strong as pure earth, but it becomes more and more difficult the deeper you go. Especially the high density of biomass will prevent easy astral navigation and only beast and water spirits can manifest without problems. The thick algae carpet on the bases outside alone would prevent any projecting mage from entering. All in all, you'd need serious mojo to find and get near to an underwater base through the astral.

I'd also refer you to p. 157ff in Run&Gun for under water operations and magic. You might find the section on underwater bases especially illuminating.

As far as I can see, bnc's arguments hold water 

[Volker]

Okay, thanks. I edited my post accordingly.

rent: So, since we are Middle Class lifestyle, that'd be -1000 Nuyen a month. So, instead of 2,500 we pay only 500? Or did I get that wrong in my hurry?

water and magic: Whew, glad to hear that! Okay, I don't have access to Run & Gun, so here's what I suggest: Plesae feel free to check the section and assume that bnc told it to you. I guess she should be familiar with it. I'd appreciate anyone finding time to summarize the most important stuff for me.

This done, I'm ready for the sarcophagus!

[SquirrelDude]

Middle class is 5k Nuyen/month. Divided four ways, that's 1250 Nuyen/month.

[SgtBoomCloud]

On the speed loader: right,  that one is for revolvers.  I dunno where I got the idea from book wise, but this was what I was looking for.  Not necessarily a necessity, but for fluff purposes makes sense and is fun

To compound Squirreldude's clarification, Middle lifestyle is 5K a month, divided four ways to 1,250 per month....unless you're a troll, in which case my share is doubled.  I included that in my purchase (bought two month's worth at chargen)

[Sabato Kuroi]

@GM

Thanks for the  help I had forgotten the section in Run n Gun !

@All

P.158 Run n Gun

"The advantage of all this life is that on the Astral Plane the oceans are relatively easy to see in, and astrally projecting characters only suffer the standard –2 dice pool penalty when navigating in even the darkest waters. Exceptions to this occur in areas where the life forms have been intentionally purged or have died off due to pollution. Astral Projection is not stopped by these microorganisms, but some are mana sensitive and light up when an astral form passes. It is up to the gamemaster to determine if these mana-luminescent species are present in a body of water. Water does not slow an astral form, but the emptiness and lack of gravitational force make traveling astrally through water quite dangerous. Projecting characters can lose their sense of direction quite easily, especially after an altercation where avoiding an attack is more important than remembering which way you’re facing. Astrally Projecting characters must make an Assensing (3) Test or lose their sense of direction underwater. With the speed of astral travel being so fast, this isn’t exactly dangerous, but it can lead to losing a target or being unable to find a specific location again. "



So it is entirely possible to astrally project in the ocean, but there is a small penalty and possible dangers.
Earth's aura is not an issue though