[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I would rule that unless the toxin has been combined with DMSO - thus making it a contact poison (or a contact poison as well) - that if the armor converted it to Stun, yes, there was no penetration.  I might - depending on the situation - rule that if the character didn't take any Physical damage at all, there was no penetration, but that's tough to make a blanket rule for.  An edge is going to cut and deliver the toxin, even if it was just a scratch to the troll or street sam, but an injection dart might not get enough purchase to do so.

[Namikaze]

Seriously, capsule rounds are the shizzle.  My wife made a character once that was into poisons, used crossbows, etc.  It quickly became apparent that the capsule rounds and pistols would have been a better option (statistically speaking anyway, her character was still badass).

[Sterling]

Seriously, capsule rounds are the shizzle.  My wife made a character once that was into poisons, used crossbows, etc.  It quickly became apparent that the capsule rounds and pistols would have been a better option (statistically speaking anyway, her character was still badass).

Have to agree, capsule rounds RAW are the best way to go.  The one thing that bothers me (wow, I feel kinda like Columbo) is that 1 dose of toxin is sufficient for 5 capsule rounds.  If that is the case then shouldn't there be a reduction on the toxin's power?  Otherwise what is it about capsule rounds that makes each toxin 5 times as effective?

[8-bit]

Seriously, capsule rounds are the shizzle.  My wife made a character once that was into poisons, used crossbows, etc.  It quickly became apparent that the capsule rounds and pistols would have been a better option (statistically speaking anyway, her character was still badass).

Have to agree, capsule rounds RAW are the best way to go.  The one thing that bothers me (wow, I feel kinda like Columbo) is that 1 dose of toxin is sufficient for 5 capsule rounds.  If that is the case then shouldn't there be a reduction on the toxin's power?  Otherwise what is it about capsule rounds that makes each toxin 5 times as effective?

Method of getting it into your target's system? Perhaps it's more efficient. Not sure though, that is a good question.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Presuming it's a contact toxin, speed of injection, maybe?  It all goes in ... I dunno.  I've thought about that myself, and didn't like any of the results I came up with either.

[Reaver]

sometimes it's best not to over think things too far...

[Herr Brackhaus]

Seriously, capsule rounds are the shizzle.  My wife made a character once that was into poisons, used crossbows, etc.  It quickly became apparent that the capsule rounds and pistols would have been a better option (statistically speaking anyway, her character was still badass).

Have to agree, capsule rounds RAW are the best way to go.  The one thing that bothers me (wow, I feel kinda like Columbo) is that 1 dose of toxin is sufficient for 5 capsule rounds.  If that is the case then shouldn't there be a reduction on the toxin's power?  Otherwise what is it about capsule rounds that makes each toxin 5 times as effective?

Not to mention that unlike the Super Squirt, capsule rounds do not require an Exotic Weapon skill to use. Really, with capsule rounds also costing less because of 1 dose going further, I don't see much need to even consider the Super Squirt.

[ScytheKnight]

Seriously, capsule rounds are the shizzle.  My wife made a character once that was into poisons, used crossbows, etc.  It quickly became apparent that the capsule rounds and pistols would have been a better option (statistically speaking anyway, her character was still badass).

Have to agree, capsule rounds RAW are the best way to go.  The one thing that bothers me (wow, I feel kinda like Columbo) is that 1 dose of toxin is sufficient for 5 capsule rounds.  If that is the case then shouldn't there be a reduction on the toxin's power?  Otherwise what is it about capsule rounds that makes each toxin 5 times as effective?

Probably because capsule round are a lot smaller than an injection arrow/bolt/dart or however the supersquirt holds its payload. Also keep in mind that the bolt/arrow/darts are used for injection vectors while the supersquirt is used for contact, Bullets are also used for contact vectors. Consider then that the primary method of delivery is the supersquirt which is basically just spraying an area with the stuff, to a bullet that possibly punches through the armor and gives direct contact to skin, that's without someone being fancy with a Down the Gullet shot.

[Namikaze]

Probably because capsule round are a lot smaller than an injection arrow/bolt/dart or however the supersquirt holds its payload. Also keep in mind that the bolt/arrow/darts are used for injection vectors while the supersquirt is used for contact, Bullets are also used for contact vectors. Consider then that the primary method of delivery is the supersquirt which is basically just spraying an area with the stuff, to a bullet that possibly punches through the armor and gives direct contact to skin, that's without someone being fancy with a Down the Gullet shot.

All of this is wrong.

First off, capsule rounds and the SuperSquirt both use DMSO, which is a really badass solvent.  It allows damn near anything to be transferred through skin, which in game terms makes anything you mix with DMSO into a contact vector.  Second, no one uses bullets to transmit chemicals.  To do so would result in the chemical being obliterated by the pressures and heats involved in firing out of the chamber.  That's what capsule rounds are for.  Third, capsule rounds don't pierce anything - they simply splat against things.  Just like a paintball.  Fourth, the capsule round isn't attempting to make direct contact with the skin - the chemical inside it is attempting to make contact with the skin.  Thus, you'd still need to "do damage" with the capsule round in order to simulate that the chemical got to the skin.  But it's not like the capsule is penetrating anything.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Possibly, but if you juice someone with a SuperSquirt - I dunno, does it have a 'spray' setting? - you don't get any additional bonus for hitting them with the entire full-on shot.  Like I said - thought of all the various arguments, didn't come up with any resolution I liked.

[ScytheKnight]

Alright... been a while since I read up on them. Concede most of the points... but since the capsules already have fluid in them that probably explains the reason for the spread dosage.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Um ... no, the question is why should a capsule round (using 0.2 dose) have the same effect as a full dose (from injection or a SuperSquirt).  What is it about capsule rounds that makes their delivery system five times as effective?  Or should the dosing be only 20% as effective?

[ScytheKnight]

Perhaps the fluid contains anti-coagulants and other drugs to expand blood vessels and enhance absorption into the bloodstream? More then likely it's just there to prevent the cost getting out of hand.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Realistically it should 1/5th as effective, but this is ShadowRun, so whatever. Also, this makes having either chem protection or chem seal all that much better.

Edit: typo.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

The cost SHOULD get out of hand.  God help you if you have a chemical gland that produces something peculiar or unique; you get to produce 5 shots a day (which are sellable, after all) of your favorite toxin ...