[FST_Gemstar]

Hi folks,

I've been working on an elf adept who works as a face/infiltrator who can hopefully sometimes help in a short-range/interior gunfight. Problems that I can see come up are low body/strength/edge,  spreading out too many 1 point skills, and being short cash for things I may like (armor stacks and mods particularly). My progression plan for this character was to at least boost body to 2, and then start to initiate for Masking/Flex Signature Metamagics and some more PP, and eventually taking an Adept Way (Speaker probably, maybe Beast).  I imagine he could do easy con/stealing gigs on his own, but will of course work on a team with matrix, magic, and muscle support on the real runs. Please let me know how you think I can improve this character who likes to talk and sneak through problems, sometimes taking out a weapon if needed to help in a firefight or "silence" a guard.

Name: Tamuz
Meta: Elf
Concept: Face Adept
Priorities:
Meta: C
Attributes: B
Magic: D
Skills: A
Resources: E

Leftover Karma: 0
Phys Stun: 9/10
Initiative: 8 +2d6
Limits: Physical 3, Mental 6, Social 10.

Attributes:
Body - 1
Agility - 6
Reflexes  -  4 ( Including Improved Reflexes 1)
Strength  - 2 (Bought 1 with Karma)
Charisma - 8
Intuition - 4
Logic - 4
Willpower - 4
Edge - 2 (Bought 1 with Karma)
Magic - 5

Positive Qualities:
First Impression - 11
Too Pretty to Hit - 3
Mentor Spirit (Raven) - 5

Negative Qualities:
Addiction (Mild, Alcholol) - 4
Allergy (Mild, Lactose) - 5
Prejudice (Specific/Outspoken, Abusive/Neglectful Parents) - 5
Astral Beacon - 10

Skill Groups:
Stealth 6
     Disguise (10)
     Palming (13)
     Sneaking (12)
Influence 4
     Etiquette (14)
     Leadership (14)
     Negotiation (14)

Arcana - 1 (5)
Assensing - 5 (9)
Astral Combat - 1 (5)
Computer - 1 (5)
Con - 5, +2 Fast Talk. +2 Mentor Spirit (17/19)
Electronic Warfare - 1 (5)
Escape Artist -1 (5)
Gymnastics -1 (7)
Hardware - 3 (7)
Impersonation - 6 (16)
Intimidation - 1, +2 Mental (11/13)
Locksmith - 3. +2 Maglock (9/11)
Perception - 6 (10
Performance - 1 (11)
Pistols - 6, +2 Semi-Automatics, (12/14)

Adept Powers:
Astral Perception (1pp)
Combat Sense 1 (.5pp)
Improved Reflexes 1 (1.5pp)
Authoritative Tone 2 (1pp)
Kinesics 2 (.5pp)
Linguistics (.25pp)
Nimble Fingers (.25pp)
Traceless Walk (Free, Mentor Spirit)
Voice Control 1 (Free, Mentor Spirit)

Gear (Nuyen 26k, including 10 karma)
Armor:
Vashon Island: Synergist Business Line  (Custom Fit, Concealable Holser, Tag Eraser)
Ballistic Mask (Gas Mask)

Weapons:
Ares Predator V (Smartgun, Silencer [put in Vashon Island Suit)
Defiance EX Shocker (Concealable Holster)

Fake Sin 4 (Pistol License 4)
Sequencer 4
Cellular Glove Molder 3
White Noise Generator 2
Bug Scanner 2
Data Tap
5 Datchips
Chisel
Survival Kit
5 Stealth Tags
5 Security Tags

Contacts 3 (Image Link, Vision Mag, Smart Link
Commlink; Renraku Sensei (Program: Encryption)
Subvocal Mic
AR Gloves
Certified Credsticks (silver, gold)
"Cheap Harmonica"

Hardware Kit
Disguise Kit
Lockpick Set
Ammo, pistols, tasers
Restraint, Plasteel

[Whiskeyjack]

Wow this, more than anything, shows how Skills A is a trap. Jesus.

Meta C/Magic D gives you 3 special points and Magic 2.
Magic C/Meta D gives you 0 special points, Magic 4 and 1 active skill.
Yeah I guess you come out ahead with this Priority.

BOD 1 is a terrible idea. You want it at 3, minimum. You want WIL to be an odd number too. I suggest dropping it to 3. REA baseline of 3 is bad. You want REA and INT at 5. Is LOG really doing much for you? I seem to recall the use of Hardware/LOG in B&E is extremely limited and not worth an investment of 3 attribute points.

Arcana 1 - buy it with karma in play, useless right now - pointless until you initiate.
Astral Combat 1 - absolute shit, seriously, don't, you'll just kill yourself.
Computer/Electronic Warfare 1 - dice pool of 5 is functionally useless for anything you'd actually need to roll.
Escape Artist 1 - 5 dice is pretty much crap here too.

Take these 4 skill points and pump up your Locksmith. And buy a rating 6 auto-picker.

Anything you buy at 1 you want to buy with karma, NOT with precious skill points.

Influence Group 4 is kind of a waste honestly because Etiquette isn't THAT useful and Leadership is okay. Negotiation pool of 12 isn't quite good enough to be a primary face.

Astral Perception is better in a focus than paid for with PP. Kinesics is just okay, there are better things to buy (like Motion Sense).

Your initiative is pretty bad and there's not a good way to improve it except upping REA and buying another rank of Improved Reflexes.

Gear looks good though you also want something less flashy like a bog-standard armored jacket.

[gilga]

Well - I think that even with skills A you have to have a very clear focus.

You are all over the place - and while you might say I have many skill points I can be all over the place - this is your A priority.
I'd replace skills with attributes and stay away from logic skills.
The same is true for what you do with your magic - let magic just solve one problem for you.

Either max facing with adept powers - (cool resolve autoritive tone)  or max fighting/defense (reflexes - combat senses)
Adapt powers are great when they are focused on a narrow field.  So depending on your focus reflexes + combat senses and your defense is great - build the rest with skills and attributes.

Cool resolve - you are a face okay - now make sure you are not too slow and shoot good enough.

[FrowningMirror]

Why intuition and will power at such a high level? With Skills A you can pretty much take everything that has to do with Logic, Charisma and Agility (the key skill linked stats) so I expected one or two of those to be the highest attributes. I wouldn't even bother buying strength.

[FST_Gemstar]

Thanks for the feedback!

[gradivus]

I'd probably reduce WIl and Log to 3 so that I could Increase Bod to 3.
I'd probably drop Rea from 3(4) to 2(3) and raise Int from  4 to 5- There are more INT skills than Rea.

Using skill points for specializations in chargen is normally a karma loss for you.
For example Con(Fast talk) 5(+2) to raise to 6(+2) is 12 karma post chargen.
To give Con 6 a specialization post chargen is 7 karma.
That's a 5 karma difference.
So, like other people posted, you should probably get rid of a lot of those skills you put 1 or 2 skill points into and concentrate them into skills that you will have 6 or 5 points into.

If you're gonna be a stealth adept, you might want to consider facial sculpt and melanin control as they can help you when your disguised. The Invisible Way should be considered also.

If you're only going to learn one weapon skill, you might want to consider automatics... it gives you a much wider range of choices than pistols. Though, I've had character that only knew pistols.

As far as initiative...unwounded you have a 1 in 36 of going just once and no chance to go three times.
If you had said you were a primary combatant, i'd agree with Whiskeyjack that you need to improve it.
But since you're primarily a face, this is good enough.

And remember, ain't no license gonna make them  thar silencer all legal like.

[Top Dog]

I agree with most of what my collegues said (except Computer 1 - but there's a whole discussion on that elsewhere and I know a lot of people don't agree with me. And even then you should buy it with Karma).

Commlinks cannot run programs (well, the cyberprograms listed in the book) at all. Basic encryption is built-in to commlinks (as a Computer action); the cyberprogram of that name is ment for Cyberdecks and RCC's only. Gradivus makes a good point about the license - I'd keep the pistol (with silencer), but get a second, "legal" backup for use in public. Or go automatics as he suggested and change everything around. I'm pretty sure there's also legal guns with built-in silencers around, that's also an option. They'd probably be worse then the Predator, but built-in silencers are as legal as the gun they come in.

I'd buy more ranks in Increased Reflexes soon indeed, but I agree that as a primary face it can wait. Although if you want to be more competent in combat you might want to consider saving Kinesics, Linguistics and Nimble Fingers until later (they're useful tricks, but not core to your build). Either way, your first priorities post-chargen should probably be to initiate and/or get a Qi Focus to round that out. Also a medkit.

Why does Raven get Traceless Walk btw? All other Mentors get 0.5 PP worth of stuff, except the Street Grimoire ones that get 1PP (with a bigger drawback). Raven gets 1.25? (Not really specific to this character though).

[Whiskeyjack]

Why intuition and will power at such a high level? With Skills A you can pretty much take everything that has to do with Logic, Charisma and Agility (the key skill linked stats) so I expected one or two of those to be the highest attributes. I wouldn't even bother buying strength.

INT is important for initiative, dodging, Perception, and Assensing. So it's pretty important for everyone on the merits of the first three entires in that list at least.

[Kincaid]

You're rolling a ton of dice vs. a Physical Limit of 3 for a lot of your tests.  You're going to be wasting a lot of hits, which is always painful to experience on a regular basis.  Taking the advice elsewhere in this thread will make it less bad, but even then it'll be something worth addressing.

[Tarislar]

I've been working on an elf adept who works as a face/infiltrator who can hopefully sometimes help in a short-range/interior gunfight. Problems that I can see come up are low body/strength/edge,  spreading out too many 1 point skills, and being short cash for things I may like (armor stacks and mods particularly). My progression plan for this character was to at least boost body to 2, and then start to initiate for Masking/Flex Signature Metamagics and some more PP, and eventually taking an Adept Way (Speaker probably, maybe Beast).  I imagine he could do easy con/stealing gigs on his own, but will of course work on a team with matrix, magic, and muscle support on the real runs. Please let me know how you think I can improve this character who likes to talk and sneak through problems, sometimes taking out a weapon if needed to help in a firefight or "silence" a guard.

My suggestions on how to build this.

Same concept different solution.                        
                        
A-Attributes-24                        
B-Elf-6                        
C-Skills-28/2                        
D-Magic-2-Adept                        
E-Cash-$6,000                        
                        
                        
Attributes:                        
B-3,  A-6,  R-5(7),  S-2,  W-5,  L-2,  I-5,  C-8                        
Edg-4,  Mag-6,  Ess-6,  Itv-10(12) + 1(3)D6                        
                        
Skills:                        
Group-Stealth-2  (Sneak/Palming-8+(Boost Avg 2),  Disguise-7)                        
Automatics-6, Machine Pistols+2  (12/14+Boost/2+TargettingOptions = 15-18ish)                        
Con-6, Mentor+2, Fast Talk+2  (18/20)               
Negotiation-6, Bargaining+2  (16/18)               
Perception-6, Visual+2  (11/13)               
Bought w/ Karma               
Assensing-1  (6)               
Etiquette-1  (11)               
Impersonation-1  (11)               
Locksmith-1  (7+Boost/2)               
Unarmed Combat-1  (9+Boost/2+Touch/2)               
               
               
Power Points               
2.5-Improved Reflexes-2               
1.0-Astral Perception               
1.0-Authoritative Tone-2               
0.5-Combat Sense-1               
0.5-Motion Sense         
0.25-Agility Boost-1         
0.25-Linguistics         
0.0-Traceless Walk         
0.0-Voice Control-1         
         
         
Karma Spending & Qualities         
Negatives:         
   Code of Honor-15   (No killing Women & Children)
   SINner-UCAS-5      
   Allergy-Mild-Uncommon-5      
Positives:         
   First Impression+11      
   Mentor Spirit-Raven+5      
   Too Pretty To Hit+3      
10 Karma for STR-2               
10 Karma for Cash = $20,000               
10 Karma for L1 Skills               
1 Karma for Contacts 24+1 = 25  (6/1, 5/2, 4/2, 1/4)               



Also, you mentioned a Way but didn't have it now.
For Karma efficiency I'd look into a Way now v/s later w/ Mentor Spirit & move 1st Impression & 2P2H into the later purchases category.
In turn you would need to drop a couple skills for now & that extra contact point

[gradivus]

If you really want first impression its better to do it now.
the consensus is that Ways do not cost double karma after chargen, while first impression would.
so Way now and first Impression later would be 42 karma
First Impression now and Way later would be 31 karma

And my 2cents, 11 karma for a bonus that only lasts once is kind of expensive
You could you Tarislar's concept as a template but instead of the 4 specializations, take etiquette 4...

[All4BigGuns]

Gotta say that I think it's awesome that you chose Lactose Intolerance for your character's Allergy.

Consume some cheese and that would definitely penalize the negotiations.

[Hobbes]

Consider swapping Astral perception for Magic sense.  Since 5th edition Physical Adepts = chopped liver in Astral combat really all you get is Assensing.  Magic Sense does most of what Assensing does for 1/2 the cost and no skill points. 

Also consider Way of the Beast.  Its 15 Karma net, since its a free Mentor spirit.  You'd pick up a full power point.  0.75 from Improved Reflexes and 0.25 from Combat Sense. 

With both changes you pick up 3 levels of Combat Sense.  Or another level of Improved Reflexes and Combat Sense.  Whichever floats your boat.

[Danny Montanny]

Also consider Way of the Beast.  Its 15 Karma net, since its a free Mentor spirit.  You'd pick up a full power point.  0.75 from Improved Reflexes and 0.25 from Combat Sense. 

With both changes you pick up 3 levels of Combat Sense.  Or another level of Improved Reflexes and Combat Sense.  Whichever floats your boat.

Way of the Beast has been hit with errata that doesn't give it the any other power.

[FST_Gemstar]

Thanks again everyone for all of you help. Looks like a lot of great options. I think I was pretty hung up on being able to do a lot of things and having kind of a love/hate relationship with magical abilities (using them when needed, but trying to rely on his own skills more, as astral beacon has gotten him into trouble in the past.)

  It was my understanding too that Ways don't cost double post   chargen. I thought you can't use a way discount on Impoved Reflexes (something about only on oowers things that are .5 or 1 point., but maybe the second level improved reflexes would count?)  I didn't want this character to have a SIN, but it would solve my nuyen problem too.

Thanks again!