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Proofreading: Any plans to fix the problem?

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Mäx

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« Reply #105 on: <01-17-11/1703:53> »
Let me jump in here and say that I know of some corrections that need to be made to certain books. What I don't want to do, though, is release errata in drips and drabs--if we're going to release errata, it should be complete
Could you tell us what happened to allready complete erratas that are printed in to books, but not released as errata.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

JM_Hardy

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« Reply #106 on: <01-17-11/1835:10> »
Let me jump in here and say that I know of some corrections that need to be made to certain books. What I don't want to do, though, is release errata in drips and drabs--if we're going to release errata, it should be complete
Could you tell us what happened to allready complete erratas that are printed in to books, but not released as errata.

Any errata like that was put together before I came on as developer and has not yet been passed on to me. I'll work to track it down.

Jason H.
Jason M. Hardy
Shadowrun Line Developer

"The thing is, I’m serious about what I do, and the people with whom I associate are serious about what they do. We’re all serious people. Look, I can even make a serious face. See?" --Quinn Bailey

Mäx

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« Reply #107 on: <01-18-11/0504:52> »
Any errata like that was put together before I came on as developer and has not yet been passed on to me.
Well, that sucks :'(
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Lansdren

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« Reply #108 on: <01-18-11/0614:54> »
Well I'm not going to hold against you things you didnt get given, hand overs at work during good times can be a ass at bad times I dont even want to imagine.


Can we have some reasurance that the quality issues are being handled in both directions? It does wind me up that I put up with a older copy of a book and the only way to get the updates is to buy a new one.
"Didnt anyone tell you as security school to geek the mage first?"  "I guess I will just have to educate you with a introduction to my boomstick"

Cain

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« Reply #109 on: <01-18-11/0738:14> »
I agree.  It sucks that you weren't given the errata, but the fact that revenue is apparently being put over the product is disturbing.  What's your plan to improve quality?
« Last Edit: <01-18-11/0919:37> by Cain »

JM_Hardy

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« Reply #110 on: <01-18-11/0839:29> »
Well I'm not going to hold against you things you didnt get given, hand overs at work during good times can be a ass at bad times I dont even want to imagine.


Can we have some reasurance that the quality issues are being handled in both directions? It does wind me up that I put up with a older copy of a book and the only way to get the updates is to buy a new one.

Yup. I've gotten the schedule for the year more formalized, and that builds in more quality-assurance time. I'll also be working on a new errata-generating procedure, most of which should be in place by the end of the month.

Jason H.
Jason M. Hardy
Shadowrun Line Developer

"The thing is, I’m serious about what I do, and the people with whom I associate are serious about what they do. We’re all serious people. Look, I can even make a serious face. See?" --Quinn Bailey

Lansdren

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« Reply #111 on: <01-18-11/0919:05> »
Well I'm not going to hold against you things you didnt get given, hand overs at work during good times can be a ass at bad times I dont even want to imagine.


Can we have some reasurance that the quality issues are being handled in both directions? It does wind me up that I put up with a older copy of a book and the only way to get the updates is to buy a new one.

Yup. I've gotten the schedule for the year more formalized, and that builds in more quality-assurance time. I'll also be working on a new errata-generating procedure, most of which should be in place by the end of the month.

Jason H.


Thanks for coming back with a answer it is appriciated.

I wont try to speak for anyone else but I would be happier to wait longer for better products any day. I'm done with the arguring points have been made which seem to be taken on board I'm willing to extend some time to see the next batch of work under the new procedures. Attitude sounds like it could be fun so I'll look forward to see how that turns out.
"Didnt anyone tell you as security school to geek the mage first?"  "I guess I will just have to educate you with a introduction to my boomstick"

JujuManiac

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« Reply #112 on: <01-18-11/1142:00> »
Well, I am a fan of the Shadowrun Line since the 2cnd Edition and I bought every single PDF Product from the 4th Edition right until the Corporate Guide. And I bought every single book from the 4th edition that was translated in german to have it in paper. The reason I stopped buying the english PDFs right upon their date of release is the poor quality that startet with the Corp Guide discussed in many other threads here and on Dumpshock or the german Pegasus boards.

I can understand the difficulties as explained here in this thread, but seriously that can't be an excuse forever. I mean you just need to go back to the standards you had, not do anything fancy or impossible. I can understand that CGL had a rough time, but please show us your sincere intent to do things better again. In my opinion the timely release of erratas would be the first step in that direction and a strong reason for me to buy the corrected PDFs and the upcoming products right on their release date again. You have lost some trust from your fanbase and I think that would be the right way to begin getting it back.

As said in this thread, this may just be a single opinion, but you can multiply each comment left here and get a very good clue what your customers are thinking. Multiply good comments by a factor 10 times higher than the bad (it is 10x more likely to complain, than to compliment), but even if you do this you must see there is a certain ammount of mistrust in the quality of your releases. Just putting out new products will not fix this, even if they are better than the last, it will take a good ammount of time until this is recognized. That's why starting with erratas should have a high priority, this shows the dissatisfied custumors of the last products, that you take their opinions serious and that you are back on track regarding product quality.

At the moment I don't trust your approach towards quality, whatever the reasons behind that may be. Please restore this trust.

And about that leak - I can't understand why anybody does this and whoever does is certainly not a fan of the game line and treats other peoples work and enthusiasm without respect. But I'd rather see some trash talk about early ideas or unfinished chapters on the internet, than seeing poorly edited books that I have just bought for real money. I understand it must be frustrating for the authors, but seriously: isn't it more frustrating to release a badly researched and edited book and getting this response from your honest customers? I can't really imagine that the trash talkers and trolls who comment on these leaks are part of your loyal customer base.

So please reestablish your old standards for quality releases and fix the errors that were made. I can't think of anything more important for the long term development of the Shadowrun game line and it's fan base.

There a few things more important than the trust of your customers in your products for any business that wants to make money and stay in the market.

Mäx

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« Reply #113 on: <01-18-11/1230:48> »
I can't really imagine that the trash talkers and trolls who comment on these leaks are part of your loyal customer base.
On the contrary, pretty much all of them are/have been loyal members of the customer base for years/decades(some from the very first books ever released) thats the exactly the reason why they take time to express their worries about the way the game line is going to.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Sengir

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« Reply #114 on: <01-18-11/1325:40> »
Any errata like that was put together before I came on as developer and has not yet been passed on to me.
So that I'm getting this right: Not just have procedures for new errata been mostly absent so far, but whatever previously existed got eaten by the dog? Oh dear...

Bull

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« Reply #115 on: <01-18-11/1404:10> »
I can't really imagine that the trash talkers and trolls who comment on these leaks are part of your loyal customer base.
On the contrary, pretty much all of them are/have been loyal members of the customer base for years/decades(some from the very first books ever released) thats the exactly the reason why they take time to express their worries about the way the game line is going to.

The most vocal fans are often the most passionate fans.  The word "Fan" comes from "Fanatic" after all.
« Last Edit: <01-18-11/1513:55> by Bull »

Mäx

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« Reply #116 on: <01-18-11/1425:42> »
Any errata like that was put together before I came on as developer and has not yet been passed on to me.
So that I'm getting this right: Not just have procedures for new errata been mostly absent so far, but whatever previously existed got eaten by the dog? Oh dear...

The most vocal fans are often the most passionate fans.  The word "Fan" comes from "Fanatic" after all.
The positioning of the quote button gets an other victim, or did you really intend to quote him and not me 8)
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Bull

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« Reply #117 on: <01-18-11/1513:17> »
Yeah, quoted the wrong person.  Sorry about that :)

Fixed now :)

ssjevot

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« Reply #118 on: <01-18-11/1813:02> »
I get the impression Jason is taking the proofreading very seriously, and I'm actually currently assisting in it myself.  I think everyone is going to be pleased with future releases, and if you look at my earlier comments in this topic you'll see I wasn't thrilled about the current state of the product myself.

Mara

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« Reply #119 on: <01-20-11/0227:28> »
Yup. I've gotten the schedule for the year more formalized, and that builds in more quality-assurance time. I'll also be working on a new errata-generating procedure, most of which should be in place by the end of the month.

Jason H.

Your Battletech Brothers and Sisters have a very good setup at present, established by one of the fandom turned fact checkers essentially volunteering to
run it. Their Erratta forum is also better set up then the one here, with each book given an Errata thread, which gets locked every so many months, errata from
it compiled, put into a the header of a new thread on the book.

The Errata forum here? It is a bit of a Grand Melee. First time I posted something to it, in fact, I was surprised you did not have a thread already set up for
the product in question. It might be a good idea to follow something similar to Battletech's procedure for Errata. It works, after all. (You just have to remember
to remind people that they cannot argue on the errata in that thread..)

Though, I have to wonder why people think it is better to just BWMC then to just, you know, put stuff into the Errata Forum, since, you know, that is what it is there
for?

 

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