[DarkSpade]

Here's the basic concept of this character.  Mage working in corporate security manages to stop a shadowrun but is hurt bad enough to require significant cybernetic implants.  He aims for combat centric parts so he can keep doing his job, but he's told by the corp he was hired to throw fireballs not punches.  He's fired and turns to shadowrunning.

I'm thinking there's two ways to do this, but I'm not sure which to go with.

1) Just make a street samurai and give him a lot of magic knowledge.

Pros: 
 - Works well in the short term.
 - easy to write up
 - normal early game power level
Cons:
 - Character sheet won't truly represent the character
 - No way to ever regain magic abilities of any kind(that I'm aware of)

2) Create the magic throwing pre injury character first(including some basic combat skills a security guy should have) and then cyber him up, specifically aiming for combat centric upgrades while not worrying too much about essence cost.

Pros:
 - Character sheet will be accurate to the character.
 - Possibly retaining a small amount of magic ability. ("did that street samurai just counter spell me!?!")
 - Possible for him to regain some magic use over time(?)
Cons:
 - Character will likely be under powered for awhile.


Clearly option one would be the best solution for a one off game or a short campaign, but option 2 seems like a better choice for the long term.  I just worry that if the group I'm starting up with falls a part after a few weeks, I'll never fully see it develop.  I'm not worried about min/maxing a character, but I don't want to be a waste of space either.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[zarzak]

Sacrificing a point of essence as a mage isn't too painful.  You can get a datajack and cerebral boosters and have room for a bit more.  You take a hit with your  magic but gain drain dice (assuming a logic based tradition).  Grab a reflex recorder while you're at it.

You'll want to keep with increased reflexes for your initiative boost, which takes a huge load off of your nuyen requirements.

You obviously want to stick with bioware when possible to avoid essence concerns, but if you want to look awesome with some cyberwar that wouldn't be out of the question either.  Its just that beyond sacrificing a point of magic you begin the transition to burned out mage.

I think the important thing to focus on would be buff spells using focused concentration and sustaining foci.  You can still be perfectly functional as a mage with 1 point of essence loss, but beyond that you'll be hampering your ability to sling fireballs well.

[Whiskeyjack]

The biggest problem is "significant" ware degrades a stat you paid high price for, basically meaning you pay the same cost and get much lesser value. Most mages don't want to lose more than 1 MAG from ware. Lose more and you e effectively thrown points out the window. But for 1 ESS you can get a good package of stuff that DOES offset the loss. Just when you're taking loss of more than 1 it's questionable to take magic in the first place

[Top Dog]

While Zarzak's suggestions are sensible, I don't think that's what you see your character would be doing. So let's see if we can do that...

Now, Priority Chargen doesn't need to follow the character's life story - if your character used to be a decent mage, that doesn't mean we have to buy up Magic at A or B to simulate that. And since we're losing that anyway, let's look at something like
Resources A
Abilities B
Magic C
Skills D
Metatype E
(I don't like Skills D, but Abilities D would be worse, I think. Sum-to-10 will improve it, I think - ACCCE is better. You could actually go Magic D for this build as well; Aspected Sorcerer isn't a huge loss for you).

Basically you'd build it as standard Street Sam, except you don't go below 1 Essence. Then you buy up your magic back up to 1 for 5 karma. Normally, this would be cheesy, and (while it's according to the rules) many a GM may throw you a funky look, but truth is this build is suboptimal (you're basically throwing away your C priority for a gimmick) so it should be fine.

This leaves you with a street sam - a bit weaker, because of less skills, and with less edge. But you still have 1 point of Magic, and that means you can use Magic skills. Obviously, you shouldn't try actually casting anything, but you can get Counterspelling for Spell Defense, and Assensing for astral perception (which will make people go WTF). Those don't depend on Magic at all, I believe.

In the far, far future, your magical potential is unlimited - you can initiate and raise magic in an infinite loop - but honestly, that's not going to be worth the karma.

Let's not kid ourselves - this is not optimized in the slightest. If you build it well, it may be an effective character, however, and an interesting one at that.

[JmOz01]

IF SUM 10 Go

Attributes B; Skills B; Resources C; Magic C; Race Human E

And limit your Cyberware to essence-3 (this gives Magic 1, a magic 2 would be better)

With this you could still have a moderately decent Sam

I would go with an intuition based style for magic.  As you will want it high for assessing and perception anyways

Spells I would take Increase Reflex and Heal defiantly.  If you are willing to take a fairly harsh skill drop you can put quite a bit into spell casting heal spells and still be pretty good with them

Some Str and agility boosters, or maybe just a cyberarm.  Yes expensive, but lets face it nothing says not a mage like a decked out obvious cyberarm.  In a bit I will retire to the other room and see what I can throw together based on a standard build ABCDE)

[zarzak]

While Zarzak's suggestions are sensible, I don't think that's what you see your character would be doing. So let's see if we can do that...

Now, Priority Chargen doesn't need to follow the character's life story - if your character used to be a decent mage, that doesn't mean we have to buy up Magic at A or B to simulate that. And since we're losing that anyway, let's look at something like
Resources A
Abilities B
Magic C
Skills D
Metatype E
(I don't like Skills D, but Abilities D would be worse, I think. Sum-to-10 will improve it, I think - ACCCE is better. You could actually go Magic D for this build as well; Aspected Sorcerer isn't a huge loss for you).

Basically you'd build it as standard Street Sam, except you don't go below 1 Essence. Then you buy up your magic back up to 1 for 5 karma. Normally, this would be cheesy, and (while it's according to the rules) many a GM may throw you a funky look, but truth is this build is suboptimal (you're basically throwing away your C priority for a gimmick) so it should be fine.

This leaves you with a street sam - a bit weaker, because of less skills, and with less edge. But you still have 1 point of Magic, and that means you can use Magic skills. Obviously, you shouldn't try actually casting anything, but you can get Counterspelling for Spell Defense, and Assensing for astral perception (which will make people go WTF). Those don't depend on Magic at all, I believe.

In the far, far future, your magical potential is unlimited - you can initiate and raise magic in an infinite loop - but honestly, that's not going to be worth the karma.

Let's not kid ourselves - this is not optimized in the slightest. If you build it well, it may be an effective character, however, and an interesting one at that.

I don't think spellcasting needs to be out of the question.  Buff spells are still going to work perfectly well.  Sure you won't be melting faces or manipulating minds or whatnot, but there is still a lot you can do that can directly benefit your new street sam role.  Take Improved Reflexes. 

Lets say you have a character with a magic rating of 2, spellcasting 6, a focus in health spells, and +2 to health spells from a mentor spirit (bear or mutation).  Thats 12 dice for health spells, meaning you can plan on a fairly reliable 2 hits for improved reflexes.  Grab a sustaining focus and you're set.  You just emulated one of the big money sinks for a street sam - wired reflexes.

Same thing with Increase Agility, Increase Strength, etc.

Actually, its not a half-bad idea, now that I think more on it.  Sure its not as optimal as other paths, but I don't think its unplayable.

Take your Mentor Spirit - Bear or Mutation (both can be useful for a street sam type of character).  Focus in Health spells.  Also be a Mystic Adept, to get some more intrinsic boosts.

Spend skill points on spellcasting, counterspelling, maybe assessing, and your gun skills/street sam skills.  Max out agility, get a decent body score, have a good drain score (logic/will, for example), get some solid intuition.  Make sure you start with preferably Magic 2.

Grab a datajack, cerebral boosters, reflex recorder (for your primary firearm skill).  Maybe some cyber eyes/cyber ears, maybe a cyber arm with a cyber weapon, or some agility boosters.  Also get some sustaining health foci, and maybe a spellcasting health foci.

Grab Increase Reflexes, Increase Agility, maybe a few other buff type spells, and Heal.

All of the sudden you're a street sam who is enhancing his physical stats partly through 'ware, partly through sustained spells, with a powerpoint or two thrown in for good measure.

[Hobbes]

Problem with KMart mages (lots of foci and sustained spells) is that as soon as you hit any kind of background count you've got serious problems.  Also, any kind of Astral security is going to be a cold hard stop for the character.

I would use Top Dog's suggestion if your GM was willing to play along.  Astral Perception + Sustained Silence spell + Thermographic Smoke + Monowhip = Mad Lulz.  True story.

Force 4 spirits are easy to summon, and should usually result in no drain.  Having your own counterspell pool isn't bad.  Your main problem will be Skills D. 

[JmOz01]

Something I put together quick

Needs a good sustaining foci still (Should be able to get one after a couple runs)

A little bit more mage like than I originally intended btw.  Most of the focus is on the cyber arm...However in truth probably could drop it and play around with gear to get the foci...

Unnamed Hero
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 3, A 2/4, R 3, S 2/4, W 5, L 2, I 6, C 2, ESS 4.16, EDG 3, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 11 / 11
Armor: 14
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 5
Physical Initiative: 9+1D6
Astral Initiative: 12+3D6
Active Skills: Alchemy (Command +2) 2, Assensing 5, Athletics Group 1, Automatics 4, Counterspelling 6, Influence Group 1, Perception 5, Sneaking (Urban +2) 6, Spellcasting (Health Spells +2) 6, Unarmed Combat 4
Knowledge Skills: Arcane Lore 4, Magic Theory 5, Security (<CORP> +2) 6
Languages: English N
Qualities: Buddhist Magician, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, Mentor Spirit: Shark, SINner (Corporate Limited SIN): Company, Weak Immune System
Spells: Detect Life, Extended, Flame Burst, Heal, Heal, Increase Reflexes, Lightning Bolt, Stunbolt, Trid Phantasm
Alchemical Preparations: Increase Charisma, Resist Pain
Augmentations:
. . Cyber Arm (Obvious) (Alphaware) (Main Hand) w/ Cyberlimb Agility (9), Cyberlimb Strength (9), Enhanced Agility (Alphaware) (3), Enhanced Armor +2 (Alphaware) (2), Enhanced Strength (Alphaware) (3), Large Smuggling Compartment (Alphaware)
. . . . Hand Blade (Alphaware)
. . Cybereyes (Alphaware) (2) w/ Flare Compensation (Alphaware), Image Link (Alphaware), Smartlink (Alphaware), Thermographic Vision (Alphaware), Vision Magnification (Alphaware)
. . Muscle Augmentation (2)
. . Muscle Toner (2)
Gear:
. . Armor Jacket w/ Concealable Holster, Fire Resistance (6), Nonconductivity (6), Shock Frills, YNT Softweave
. . Backpack
. . Certified Credstick, Gold
. . Flashlight, Thermographic
. . Medkit (3)
. . Metal Restraints
. . Micro-Tranceiver
. . Plastic Restraints x10
. . Respirator (1)
. . Subvocal Microphone
. . Survival Kit
. . Tag Eraser
. . Transys Avalon Commlink w/ Mapsoft: CITY
Weapons:
. . Ares Crusader II [Machine Pistol, Acc 7, DV 7P, AP –, SA/BF, RC 2, 40 (c)] w/ (80x) APDS, (40x) Explosive Rounds, Gas-Vent System (2), Gecko Grip, (40x) Regular Ammo, Smartgun System, Internal, (4x) Spare Clips, (40x) Stick-n-Shock
. . Hand Blade (Alphaware) [Unarmed, Acc 5, DV 11P, AP -2]
. . Survival Knife [Blade, Acc 5, DV 11P, AP -1]
Contacts:
Fixer (Connection 4, Loyalty 2)
Starting ¥: 3D6 × 60¥

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Shadowrun © 2005-2015 The Topps Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Shadowrun is a registered trademark of The Topps Company, Inc.

[zarzak]

Problem with KMart mages (lots of foci and sustained spells) is that as soon as you hit any kind of background count you've got serious problems.  Also, any kind of Astral security is going to be a cold hard stop for the character.

I would use Top Dog's suggestion if your GM was willing to play along.  Astral Perception + Sustained Silence spell + Thermographic Smoke + Monowhip = Mad Lulz.  True story.

Force 4 spirits are easy to summon, and should usually result in no drain.  Having your own counterspell pool isn't bad.  Your main problem will be Skills D.

The nice thing is that, beyond relying on improved reflexes (which most mages would do) you have your implements to fall back on.  Astral Security + Background Count are problems for any mage, so I don't see that as a real impairment here (i.e. if the game master wants to screw over the character he will, same thing as with a 'normal' mage).  Just like MAD scanners can cause problems for a cybered up street sam, etc. etc.

[Hobbes]

Something I put together quick

Needs a good sustaining foci still (Should be able to get one after a couple runs)

A little bit more mage like than I originally intended btw.  Most of the focus is on the cyber arm...However in truth probably could drop it and play around with gear to get the foci...

Unnamed Hero
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 3, A 2/4, R 3, S 2/4, W 5, L 2, I 6, C 2, ESS 4.16, EDG 3, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 11 / 11
Armor: 14
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 5
Physical Initiative: 9+1D6
Astral Initiative: 12+3D6
Active Skills: Alchemy (Command +2) 2, Assensing 5, Athletics Group 1, Automatics 4, Counterspelling 6, Influence Group 1, Perception 5, Sneaking (Urban +2) 6, Spellcasting (Health Spells +2) 6, Unarmed Combat 4
Knowledge Skills: Arcane Lore 4, Magic Theory 5, Security (<CORP> +2) 6
Languages: English N
Qualities: Buddhist Magician, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, Mentor Spirit: Shark, SINner (Corporate Limited SIN): Company, Weak Immune System
Spells: Detect Life, Extended, Flame Burst, Heal, Heal, Increase Reflexes, Lightning Bolt, Stunbolt, Trid Phantasm
Alchemical Preparations: Increase Charisma, Resist Pain
Augmentations:
. . Cyber Arm (Obvious) (Alphaware) (Main Hand) w/ Cyberlimb Agility (9), Cyberlimb Strength (9), Enhanced Agility (Alphaware) (3), Enhanced Armor +2 (Alphaware) (2), Enhanced Strength (Alphaware) (3), Large Smuggling Compartment (Alphaware)
. . . . Hand Blade (Alphaware)
. . Cybereyes (Alphaware) (2) w/ Flare Compensation (Alphaware), Image Link (Alphaware), Smartlink (Alphaware), Thermographic Vision (Alphaware), Vision Magnification (Alphaware)
. . Muscle Augmentation (2)
. . Muscle Toner (2)
Gear:
. . Armor Jacket w/ Concealable Holster, Fire Resistance (6), Nonconductivity (6), Shock Frills, YNT Softweave
. . Backpack
. . Certified Credstick, Gold
. . Flashlight, Thermographic
. . Medkit (3)
. . Metal Restraints
. . Micro-Tranceiver
. . Plastic Restraints x10
. . Respirator (1)
. . Subvocal Microphone
. . Survival Kit
. . Tag Eraser
. . Transys Avalon Commlink w/ Mapsoft: CITY
Weapons:
. . Ares Crusader II [Machine Pistol, Acc 7, DV 7P, AP –, SA/BF, RC 2, 40 (c)] w/ (80x) APDS, (40x) Explosive Rounds, Gas-Vent System (2), Gecko Grip, (40x) Regular Ammo, Smartgun System, Internal, (4x) Spare Clips, (40x) Stick-n-Shock
. . Hand Blade (Alphaware) [Unarmed, Acc 5, DV 11P, AP -2]
. . Survival Knife [Blade, Acc 5, DV 11P, AP -1]
Contacts:
Fixer (Connection 4, Loyalty 2)
Starting ¥: 3D6 × 60¥

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Shadowrun © 2005-2015 The Topps Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Shadowrun is a registered trademark of The Topps Company, Inc.

Looks like you've got Heal twice. 

You've got a lot invested in Unarmed combat with all the augments.  May I suggest Monowhip?  Drop the Muscle Augmentation and the Cyberlimb str, put a Monowhip in the finger.  Profit.  If you stick with Unarmed you could add a shock glove and still drop the Str augments to free up cash if you want.  Or not, stabbing isn't bad. 

I'd drop Alchemy and the stealth specialization and get Automatics and whatever your melee combat skill is maxed out.  Pick up low level Alchemy with Karma if you still want it. 

You've got lots of ways of killing people.  If you max out Automatics, you'll rarely use combat spells.  Physical Mask?  Physical Invisibility?  Levitation?  Silence?  Lots of good utility out there.  If you're planning on spamming combat spells, do you really need Automatics?  Large opportunity cost is what I'm getting at when you take multiple combat skills.  Fits the character concept though to have both skills, but you can Max out Automatics, grab a few grenades and drop the combat spells for more utility. 

[zarzak]

Something I put together quick

Needs a good sustaining foci still (Should be able to get one after a couple runs)

A little bit more mage like than I originally intended btw.  Most of the focus is on the cyber arm...However in truth probably could drop it and play around with gear to get the foci...

Unnamed Hero
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 3, A 2/4, R 3, S 2/4, W 5, L 2, I 6, C 2, ESS 4.16, EDG 3, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 11 / 11
Armor: 14
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 5
Physical Initiative: 9+1D6
Astral Initiative: 12+3D6
Active Skills: Alchemy (Command +2) 2, Assensing 5, Athletics Group 1, Automatics 4, Counterspelling 6, Influence Group 1, Perception 5, Sneaking (Urban +2) 6, Spellcasting (Health Spells +2) 6, Unarmed Combat 4
Knowledge Skills: Arcane Lore 4, Magic Theory 5, Security (<CORP> +2) 6
Languages: English N
Qualities: Buddhist Magician, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, Mentor Spirit: Shark, SINner (Corporate Limited SIN): Company, Weak Immune System
Spells: Detect Life, Extended, Flame Burst, Heal, Heal, Increase Reflexes, Lightning Bolt, Stunbolt, Trid Phantasm
Alchemical Preparations: Increase Charisma, Resist Pain
Augmentations:
. . Cyber Arm (Obvious) (Alphaware) (Main Hand) w/ Cyberlimb Agility (9), Cyberlimb Strength (9), Enhanced Agility (Alphaware) (3), Enhanced Armor +2 (Alphaware) (2), Enhanced Strength (Alphaware) (3), Large Smuggling Compartment (Alphaware)
. . . . Hand Blade (Alphaware)
. . Cybereyes (Alphaware) (2) w/ Flare Compensation (Alphaware), Image Link (Alphaware), Smartlink (Alphaware), Thermographic Vision (Alphaware), Vision Magnification (Alphaware)
. . Muscle Augmentation (2)
. . Muscle Toner (2)
Gear:
. . Armor Jacket w/ Concealable Holster, Fire Resistance (6), Nonconductivity (6), Shock Frills, YNT Softweave
. . Backpack
. . Certified Credstick, Gold
. . Flashlight, Thermographic
. . Medkit (3)
. . Metal Restraints
. . Micro-Tranceiver
. . Plastic Restraints x10
. . Respirator (1)
. . Subvocal Microphone
. . Survival Kit
. . Tag Eraser
. . Transys Avalon Commlink w/ Mapsoft: CITY
Weapons:
. . Ares Crusader II [Machine Pistol, Acc 7, DV 7P, AP –, SA/BF, RC 2, 40 (c)] w/ (80x) APDS, (40x) Explosive Rounds, Gas-Vent System (2), Gecko Grip, (40x) Regular Ammo, Smartgun System, Internal, (4x) Spare Clips, (40x) Stick-n-Shock
. . Hand Blade (Alphaware) [Unarmed, Acc 5, DV 11P, AP -2]
. . Survival Knife [Blade, Acc 5, DV 11P, AP -1]
Contacts:
Fixer (Connection 4, Loyalty 2)
Starting ¥: 3D6 × 60¥

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Shadowrun © 2005-2015 The Topps Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Shadowrun is a registered trademark of The Topps Company, Inc.

A few comments:

Stats: Drop Logic and Charisma further to boost Agility.  Agility is going to be one of your key skills.

Skills: Alchemy is useless for you, the Influence skill group is also worthless.  Unarmed Combat is worthless for you - you don't have the stats for it.  Sneaking is higher than you really need.  Boost up Automatics to 6 and get a specialization and max Assessing.  Move a point or so from sneaking over to etiquette if you want it.

Qualities: Jack of All Trades is not helping you.  Shark as a mentor spirit isn't helping you much; you probably want Bear (if boosting health), or perhaps Mutation or Doom. 

Spells: You have Heal twice, as mentioned.  You should probably have more buff spells.

Alchemical Preparations - I'd drop these and just focus on spells and guns, otherwise you'll be spreading yourself too thin.

Augmentations:
You should really get a reflex recorder to help with skills, and a data jack.  For your cyberarm I'd drop the hand blade and get a cyber gun.  Again - you don't have the stats for melee.

Gear:
Sustaining foci are required for you.  You've got a lot of fluffy gear you can cut if you need the nuyen.

Contacts:
You'll probably want a street doc (for your cyber stuff) as well as your fixer.  But I can see with just keeping a solid fixer.

[gradivus]

Not fully fleshed out but you get the picture:

a   Money   450000               
b   Magic   Magician   MR4   2 Rating 4Magic Skills         7 Spells
c   Attributes   16               
d   Skills   22               
e   Human (1)   Increase Edge to 3

Qualities/Karma Expenditure
25 Starting Karma
-15 Burnout's Way
-5 Mentor Spirit: Bear
Buddhist Magician
-25 Karma to get MR back up to 3 from 1 (due to augmentations)   
+10 Weak Immune System
+8 Prejudiced/Radical towards anyone a citizen/employee of Megacorp that fired you
+1  Record on File (Corporation that fired you, you get your Corporate SIN revoked when fired)
+4 Albinism
-2 Buy Arcan 1 skill
Net 1 Karma

Augmentations
74438   Used Obvious Cyberarm AGI 9/ STR9                        1.25
      w/Armor 2, Lg Smuggling Compartment, Retractable hand Razors                     
                This would drop you 2 MR giving the rest the Burnout Way essence discount.
                 I went for the razors instead of the blade because i like 10P -3 over 11P -2
28000   Cybereyes (3)                        
      w/Flare Comp,Lowlight,Smartlink, Therographic,Vision Enh 2,Vision Mag. .32               
64000   Muscle Toner 2                        0.32
62000   Muscle Augmentation 2                        0.32
63000   Celebral Booster 2                        0.32
14000   Reflex Recorder-Automatics                        0.08
14000   Reflex Recorder-Unarmed                        0.08
1000   Datajack                        0.08
17000   Platelet Factories                        0.16

This leaves you with 112562 nuyen to spend...rember to buy health sustaing focus for improved reflex spell...

B 3, A 2(4), R 3, S 2(4), W 5, L 1(3), I 6, C 3, ESS 3.07, EDG 3, M 3

Active Skills
Spellcasting 4 (from priority B) +2 (from skill points)= 6
Counterspelling 4 (from priority B) +2 (from skill points)= 6
Automatics 4
Assensing 3
Unarmed Combat 4
Sneaking 3
Perception 4
Arcana 1

First thing I'd do is save the karma to initiate and raise the MR to 4.

[ZeldaBravo]

Adept Ways are for adepts only. They are called Adept Ways for a reason!
Hint: Mystic adepts are adepts too.

[JmOz01]

Alcamy was an afterthought because of having so many spells.

I did go magic a.  If I was using build 10 I would have done it different

Unarmed combat...agility and strength of 9 is not good enough? I know body is low but seriously?  15 dice of attack as well...

However point was to give op some ideas

[zarzak]

Alcamy was an afterthought because of having so many spells.

I did go magic a.  If I was using build 10 I would have done it different

Unarmed combat...agility and strength of 9 is not good enough? I know body is low but seriously?  15 dice of attack as well...

However point was to give op some ideas

You've only got that with 1 arm though, your body+armor is low, and there's really no benefit for it over automatics.  Heavy weapons would be a better secondary skills (for a grenade launcher/cyber grenade launcher).  And if you really wanted to get some close combat skill why not blades?

But yeah, true.