[GromHellscream]

Well my character is a face, so he is at most a secondary combatant. Unfortunately the GM for the game has a reputation for trying to actively kill players. I want to stay true to the character I have put together, but I also want my face to live. So Ares Viper Sliver gun or the Savalette Guardian seem to be the guns of choice for me.

[Lucean]

And Magnaric, aside from the issue that defending has become a bit easier while also increasing the penalty for failure, I think the deliberate use of special ammo could produce its own problems.
Explosive ammo is noisier and forbidden.
APDS is still cop-killer-ammo and while easier to get in SR5 than Ex-Ex (it's only 12F in SR5 compared to 16F from SR4), as soon as investigations start they will be taken seriously just because of the ammo.

[Reaver]

Well my character is a face, so he is at most a secondary combatant. Unfortunately the GM for the game has a reputation for trying to actively kill players. I want to stay true to the character I have put together, but I also want my face to live. So Ares Viper Sliver gun or the Savalette Guardian seem to be the guns of choice for me.

Well, if its between those two, then there is no choice at all.

Go for the Savalette, The burst option, the ability to load different ammo, and the AP make it the better choice over the Silver Gun and it's "flachette only" special ammo.

[adzling]

Agreed Savalette FTW.
It's what my face uses.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Keep in mind you can use a Machine Pistol in SA mode using the Pistol skill. The Remington Suppressor is one less DV than a Savalette Guardian, but comes with an integral suppressor (meaning it's not a Forbidden item) and it has a slightly larger clip (15 vs 12, respectively). Worth considering, if nothing else.

[Magnaric]

@Herr Brackhaus: Okay, good to know about those changes. I knew 5E had increased both damage values and armour values (looking through the 5E Core PDF and Gun Heaven 3 shows that much), and I knew about the caps in 5E,  which I actually do like. Just didn't realize the jump in the difference between starting hit caps and armour values was as wide as that. Same with trying to go for the one-shot-one-headshot build, seems like that's a lot harder to achieve in 5E.  Not entirely sure how I feel about that yet, I'll probably have to play a few games in 5E to get a feel for it before I decide. But glad to know the changes either way, so thanks.

@Lucean: You're completely right about the special ammo creating the possibility for further issues. If a Runner carries ADPS cop-killer rounds, they need to make damn sure they don't use them anywhere they're seen or on camera (or take steps to delete said footage), or use them in a gun and with an outfot/gear that they promptly bury in a chest under a tree stump when not on a job. The point I tried to make is that there are ways to make pistols efficient, deadly, and viable as a main weapon, but it requires getting pretty specialized, abd potentially covering your ass better. But yeah, valid argument about the ammo.

[Dal Thrax]

If the Runners have to dump the gubs every tine they use them to svoid ballistics, then pistols are an economical plan A with something heavier as a backup.

[Rooks]

From a tactile stand point, yes burst and full auto are important, armor piercing is next to nothing for most pistols/tasers have -5 built into them, you could use stick and shock, course if they wearing Non-conductivity armor it almost cancels it out, called shots have varying effects now in 5e for -4 penalty making them lose init score, lose dice to dodging *considers stick n shock with shake up -10 init score, nasty or say the HTR is coming down the path of where the only exit is and you need them to not block you go full auto suppress and lay down covering fire so your team can escape out the side door, cant see pistols doing that.

[Lucean]

you could use stick and shock, course if they wearing Non-conductivity armor it almost cancels it out

Stick'n-Shock versus Nonconductivity is a losing game by default, because you reduce your base DV by 2 to get that -5 AP. Each additional armor the target gets just make it even easier to soak all damage and then the electrical side effects won't trigger.
Gel rounds are therefore a better means to reliably deal Stun damage while maintaining take-out-potential.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Gel rounds also have the benefit of being considerably cheaper compared to Stick-n-Shock.

[Novocrane]

If you have some time between shooting and being shot at, you might want to try capsule rounds instead. Pepper punch makes for the cheapest firearm ammo possible, and spraying an area with suppressing fire should put a few doses nearby for contact / inhalation purposes. Light pistol ranges only, unfortunately.

[GromHellscream]

Thanks guys. I have a Savalette guardian for the character, but I think the Ares Viper Slivergun is still a great pistol. I have flechette and APDS ammo for the Guardian. For my Ares light fire 75 I have gel and APDS. I like the explosive rounds, but they are loud and illegal two things that are not my Face's bag.

[Miri]

So I've seen some posts saying that a Viper Slivergun isn't worth it because of the +5AP line, is there ever a tipping point where your shooting pool compensates for the extra soak dice?

[GromHellscream]

I think against non-corp mooks it can be quite effective. Granted it is forbidden but 9P +4 AP is not all that bad, you just need to give it some help. Gas vent 3, personalized grip and a smartgun system and there you go. Technically the flichette is already in your favor. You are getting a 2 point boost in damage and the 5 extra armor they have to roll for and odds say that they fall just short of canceling your extra damage. Then there is the fact you have a supressor on it too so you can spray and still not have everyone know you are shooting the place up. To top all that off it has a clip of 30. So you should have no need to reload in combat ever. As for your shooting pool evening things out, yes, but you need to make sure that you can up the accuracy of the gun enough to take advantage of it.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Remember, they only get the extra armor if they already have it.  And if you convert nuyen to dollars and use that as a guideline for 'who can afford what' ... a LOT of people are not actually going to be armored, including bunches of gangers.