[Novocrane]

I'm not sure what's confusing

I doubt anyone is confused, per se. I'm more bemused at your 'indulgence' of prevailing opinion.

Every gear item has a wireless-enabled computer built in

Even non-electronic items without any moving parts have built-in computers

Unless you specifically choose to purchase a throwback device (or make it so through an extended test), then it is wireless. There's nothing vague or unclear about this in fifth edition.

[NovaHot1]

I'm not sure what's confusing

I doubt anyone is confused, per se. I'm more bemused at your 'indulgence' of prevailing opinion.

Every gear item has a wireless-enabled computer built in

Even non-electronic items without any moving parts have built-in computers

Unless you specifically choose to purchase a throwback device (or make it so through an extended test), then it is wireless. There's nothing vague or unclear about this in fifth edition.

Yep.

Wireless computer built in just means it can be used wirelessly. It does not by default mean you can use it to establish a DNI just because it is wireless enabled. The whole point of the original post was to find out if I missed someplace in the rules text where it states that a datajack can be used to establish a DNI without use of the cable. It does not, but it is implied enough that I'm gonna roll with it for my Friday night game. 

[Novocrane]

Still failing to shift me away from bemusement.

Why do you think one kind of wireless signal should be singled out for explicit approval?

... Why do you think there are wireless bonuses that mention DNI?

[ScytheKnight]

[NovaHot1]

Haha. Even though ScytheKnight surely included myself in that GIF, it is accurate. The question has been resolved. Unsure what you're still trying to get at, omae.

[Novocrane]

The question has been resolved

Ok. If by resolved, you mean that you've stated, "It does not by default mean you can use it to establish a DNI just because it is wireless enabled", supported by sheer faith alone, and that further converasating on the subject is not going to happen after such a statement. Then yes, it's resolved.

Alternatively; reach the conclusion that DNI isn't particularly unique in terms of wireless signals, and can be transmitted through the matrix, just like hotsim, coldsim, and everything else. Then there's nothing to 'home rule'.

Oh wait, need these.

[NovaHot1]

Except that everything you're saying is also by sheer faith alone. The fact is that the book just plain doesn't say it explicitly, so we're both going by our own interpretation. In this case, it's the same one.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Except that everything you're saying is also by sheer faith alone. The fact is that the book just plain doesn't say it explicitly, so we're both going by our own interpretation. In this case, it's the same one.

SR5 pg. 222 DIRECT NEURAL INTERFACE
A direct neural interface, or DNI, connects your brain to electronic devices. Direct neural interface (along with a sim module) is required for VR use, but DNI is also useful for AR in that you don’t need any additional gear like earbuds or an image link to see or hear augmented reality objects.
How do you sign up? You get DNI by wearing trodes, or having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck. And if you’re using a sim module along with your DNI, you can get a sort of “super AR mode” where you can also feel, smell, and taste your AR experience.

How are you confused about what the book says??? If you have Trodes, implanted Datajack, Commlink, or Cyberdeck than you have DNI with any wireless enabled devices. All devices unless specifically designed for it currently or are older than a decade old are automatically wireless enabled. You still get the cable to make direct linkages that cannot be hacked or to connect to devices designed to not be on the Matrix  so it can't be hacked remotely. You can turn wireless off on devices (similar to Airplane Mode on your phone) with a Simple Action for a Use Simple Device to flick the switch. If you have DNI with it you can tell it to turn off with a Free Action thought, still needs a Simple Action to turn back on.

[Xenon]

(at this point i think NovaHot1 is just trolling...)

[Novocrane]

(I didn't think it was in question)

Hope your keyboard is ok, Scythe.

[NovaHot1]

Except that everything you're saying is also by sheer faith alone. The fact is that the book just plain doesn't say it explicitly, so we're both going by our own interpretation. In this case, it's the same one.

SR5 pg. 222 DIRECT NEURAL INTERFACE
A direct neural interface, or DNI, connects your brain to electronic devices. Direct neural interface (along with a sim module) is required for VR use, but DNI is also useful for AR in that you don’t need any additional gear like earbuds or an image link to see or hear augmented reality objects.
How do you sign up? You get DNI by wearing trodes, or having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck. And if you’re using a sim module along with your DNI, you can get a sort of “super AR mode” where you can also feel, smell, and taste your AR experience.

How are you confused about what the book says??? If you have Trodes, implanted Datajack, Commlink, or Cyberdeck than you have DNI with any wireless enabled devices. All devices unless specifically designed for it currently or are older than a decade old are automatically wireless enabled. You still get the cable to make direct linkages that cannot be hacked or to connect to devices designed to not be on the Matrix  so it can't be hacked remotely. You can turn wireless off on devices (similar to Airplane Mode on your phone) with a Simple Action for a Use Simple Device to flick the switch. If you have DNI with it you can tell it to turn off with a Free Action thought, still needs a Simple Action to turn back on.

Except two things that seem to escape everyone:

1) It lists it as a way to establish DNI and, even though wireless technology is pervasive, the book  does not say specifically that datajacks can establish a wireless DNI the way it does specifically say you can plug into anything with the universal access cable.

2) I'm agreeing that it makes sense for it to be wirelessly enabled DNI, even if the book doesn't state it specifically, and I'm definitely going to run it that way in my game.

As for

(at this point i think NovaHot1 is just trolling...)

and

(I didn't think it was in question)

Hope your keyboard is ok, Scythe.

...I would say trolling would be arguing something while repeatedly ignoring the point made by the person you're arguing with.

[Xenon]

In SR5 you always connect wireless. This is default. This is the GENERAL rule.
If you cannot connect via wireless the book will explicitly tell you so with a SPECIFIC rule.

In SR5 you almost never connect with a wire. Connecting with a wire is NOT default.
If can gain a benefit by connecting with a wire this will be explained with a SPECIFIC rule.




I'll try one more time then (even though i have posted this earlier in this very thread)
Please read the following carefully this time, thank you.

SR5 p. 163 Change Linked Device Mode
A character may use a Free Action to activate, deactivate, or switch the mode on any device that he is linked to by a direct neural interface through either a wired or wireless link.

The above explicitly tell you that you can use DNI through a wireless link.

Can we now once and for all please agree that you can use DNI  to establish a wireless link??
Thank you!


Next. How do you get DNI. What devices do you need? The answer to this is in the red box on p. 222

SR5 p. 222 Direct Neural Interface - Red Box
How do you sign up? You get DNI by wearing trodes, or having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck.

The above explicitly tell you that you get DNI from having an implanted datajack.

Can we now agree that an implanted cyberdeck give you DNI? That you don't need any other devices. That it is "that easy"?
Thank you!



So.
1) DNI can be used to wireless link to an item
2) Datajack can be used to get DNI (act as a bridge between your brain a device)

1+2 = Datajack can be used as a bridge to wireless link your brain to a wireless enabled device.


Please break down what I said and explain to me what part in the two quotes from the book you don't understand or does not agree with.

...I would say trolling would be arguing something while repeatedly ignoring the point made by the person you're arguing with.

You are repeatedly ignoring the points we make, omae.

[Prætus]

In SR5 you always connect wireless. This is default. This is the GENERAL rule.
If you cannot connect via wireless the book will explicitly tell you so with a SPECIFIC rule.

In SR5 you almost never connect with a wire. Connecting with a wire is NOT default.
If can gain a benefit by connecting with a wire this will be explained with a SPECIFIC rule.

So, a specific rule, like that provided in the description of what the datajack is used for; connecting via cable?  I don't want to beat a dead horse, but DNI and Wireless are NOT synonymous here.  Wireless means the device does not need to be physically connected to make changes to the device settings.  DNI allows for VR and enhanced AR operations, something particularly important to Deckers and Riggers.  Now, here's the important thing that I think is being overlooked throughout this discussion, the full description of what a Datajack does.

Page 452:
"A datajack gives you a direct neural interface (p. 222), which can be handy in a lot of situations. It also comes with a retractable spool of micro-cable (about a meter long) that lets you directly interface with any electronic device via a universal access cable. Datajacks are equipped with their own cache of storage memory for downloading or saving files. Two datajack users can string a fiberoptic cable between themselves to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception or eavesdropping.
Wireless: The datajack gives you Rating 1 noise reduction."  Bold areas to provide emphasis.

The primary purpose of the datajack is to allow a DNI connection with a device in a non-wireless state.  It's secondary function is to help reduce noise and static for wireless devices.  Further consideration of the Datajack's capability can be found in the section on Throwbacks on page 421.  Basically, it's a useful add-on for Deckers and Riggers who want implanted 'links or decks (as their primary source of DNI) since it provides noise reduction when wireless functionality is active.  The datajack is, inherently, a wired device that also has a specific wireless function it can provide.

That said, yes, both implanted commlinks and cyberdecks provide DNI functionality AND operate wirelessly to provide links to other devices and the Matrix.

I want to be clear though.  I am not saying anyone here is wrong with their interpretation, I am simply applying my almost three decades of gaming in general, and two decades of experience with Shadowrun specifically, to try to interpret the intent of materials which honestly can be said to be conflicted at times.  Even in SR4 the datajack was not a wireless capable device.  At least now it offers the benefit of some noise reduction; an important function to be sure.  YMMV.

-=Prætus=-

[ScytheKnight]

I... I... I don't... how... HOW are people this dense?

[Xenon]

So, a specific rule, like that provided in the description of what the datajack is used for; connecting via cable

I would agree with you if it mentioned Living Persona in the description. It doesn't.

Living Persona interact with devices via  deviceless and wireless connections.
You cannot attach a physical wire to a Living Persona in the same way you cannot attach a wire to an Astral Aura.

DNI allows for VR and enhanced AR operations, something particularly important to Deckers and Riggers.  Now, here's the important thing that I think is being overlooked throughout this discussion, the full description of what a Datajack does.

But one thing DNI does not do is to allow for a Living Persona to interact with devices...

The datajack is, inherently, a wired device that also has a specific wireless function it can provide.

Semantics for sure; but I would say that SR5 datajacks are wireless devices by default (just like all other devices in SR5). If it allow specific wired operations then there will be specific rules for that.

Primary uses of DNI include but is not limited to; Giving you a brain-to-device-interface (both wired and wireless, but by default you connect wireless), provide overall better signal reception for all your devices (you don't get this if you use a wireless off datajack), access to augmented reality without the use of devices such as image link, earbuds and AR gloves (this is not something you can do with a wireless off datajack) and (together with a sim module - located in a control rig, on a cyberdeck or on a modded commlink) give the user access to VR (this is also not something you can do with a wireless off datajack).

You use a wire from your datajack when you want to securely mentally communicate with someone else that have a datajack (you can of course also use it to mentally communicate wireless using the Send Message matrix action - but matrix communication can be Snooped), if you want to directly connect an internal piece of cyberware with a device (for example if you want to connect your smartgun to your internal smartlink which let you fire around corners, get +2 accuracy and be immune to bricking or if you are a decker with a device based persona based on an internal cyberdeck and want to bypass host ratings on a slaved device). That is about it (and all the above is also something TMs can benefit from).

In addition to this:

A rigger might use a wire from the jack that his control rig directly to a vehicle when he want to form a persona on a vehicle directly (using matrix attributes from the vehicle) - but normally a rigger would base his persona on his RCC and use a direct wire from that to a vehicle he want to establish a direct connection to.

A decker might use a wire from the jack on his cyberdeck directly to a device that is slaved to a host to bypass host ratings.

A technomancer might use a Skinlink Echo and physically touch a device she want to establish a direct connection to with her Living Persona and two TMs with Skinlink Echo can touch each other to mentally communicate securely without using the Matrix.