[Hobbes]

The most efficient way to spend your skill points, regardless of priority, is by maxing out skills to 6 and picking up low skills with Karma.  JoaT actually makes that more efficient. 

[adzling]

FYI joat only applies post chargen iirc.

[Hobbes]

Yes, but it still makes low ranking skills cheaper 

[adzling]

Because it only works post chargen it's helpful to buy skills you don't have or raise lower ones.
If you have skills priority d or e it's a god send to round out character in play.

And just how many different skills do you want your character to invest in?  Is it more than they would have been able to take with priority A or B in skills?  The part I'm having trouble understanding is how is the PQ so valuable when its value appears to be in karma efficiency and getting the most out of it requires making extremely (karma) inefficient choices with priorities (assuming skills D or E).  Are there even enough skills to make up for that difference?

Don't get me wrong, I can see great value to the team in taking 3-4 points in skills for teamwork tests or just to a few point here and there to round out a character or not have to default on rolls (or even be able to make them).  JoaT also looks more appealing for Troll/Ork/Dwarf metatypes in priority chargen.

[Jack_Spade]

Actually, it doesn't really matter for JoaT which priority you choose:

I play a sum to 14 character that has 46/10 +4 from Magic B (adept) +2 Mentor Spirit skill points and I still have enough open spots that I invested in JoaT. There is just so much you can use one or two points of competency.

[Whiskeyjack]

And just how many different skills do you want your character to invest in?  Is it more than they would have been able to take with priority A or B in skills?  The part I'm having trouble understanding is how is the PQ so valuable when its value appears to be in karma efficiency and getting the most out of it requires making extremely (karma) inefficient choices with priorities (assuming skills D or E).  Are there even enough skills to make up for that difference?

Don't get me wrong, I can see great value to the team in taking 3-4 points in skills for teamwork tests or just to a few point here and there to round out a character or not have to default on rolls (or even be able to make them).  JoaT also looks more appealing for Troll/Ork/Dwarf metatypes in priority chargen.

Skills A is generally not a good idea. Most characters don't need that many skills, and characters who say they do can almost always benefit from a little paring and allocation of something else (Magic, Attributes, Resources) to the A level instead.

Because it only works post chargen it's helpful to buy skills you don't have or raise lower ones.
If you have skills priority d or e it's a god send to round out character in play.

The question then becomes, "is that a good use of resources, to buy a couple low ranks, even if they're cheaper?"

Maybe sometimes. Generally I think not.

Actually, it doesn't really matter for JoaT which priority you choose:

I play a sum to 14 character that has 46/10 +4 from Magic B (adept) +2 Mentor Spirit skill points and I still have enough open spots that I invested in JoaT. There is just so much you can use one or two points of competency.

But...why? Shadowrunning is a team game. Sometimes a little redundancy is OK but generally, eh, it doesn't really help you very much.

[FasterN8]

Actually, it doesn't really matter for JoaT which priority you choose:
... There is just so much you can use one or two points of competency.

Exactly. 

I have a character with it and I plan to take at most 4 skills up to around 9 and they all started at 6.  On the other end, I plan to buy 10-15 skills up to 1 or 2 from 0. 

     Really, it's like the best deal in the game just got better as far as dice-per-karma efficiency.  Raising a skill from 0 to 1 nets you 2 dice on those tests and now you can get that with only 1 karma.  It really does make A attributes really shine and even encourages attribute increases sooner than the regular karma CBA.  Suppose you've got 2 agility linked skills that are at 6.  Do you raise them both to 7 for 28 karma or do you raise your agility from 5 to 6 for 30 karma?  Either way it's 1 more dice to both skills.  Now with JoaT, that crossover happens at skill rank 5 instead of 6. 
     Heck, it even pushes back the benefits of specialization a few levels.  Before if you were only going to do one thing with a skill, you would just take the skill at 1 and then specialize for a net 4 dice at the cost of 9 karma.  With JoaT it's probably better to actually raise the entire skill to 3 for 9 karma.  Same dice, but now they apply to the whole skill.   
    Another ancillary benefit of the quality is to massively cut down on the training time for skill groups at low levels.  Need the athletics group?  Buy all 3 skills individually and learn them in 1-3 days instead of 2 weeks.  Oh and by the way, you also saved 2 karma over the skill group discount while doing it.

Yeah, the tertiary skills you're taking might be used more rarely (if ever), but I actually feel better and more rounded to know that I have a swimming skill at 1 in case I ever fall off a boat.  Or a survival skill of 1 in case you're out in the woods.  You just never know what a mission will include.

[happybjorn]

I have a character with it and I plan to take at most 4 skills up to around 9 and they all started at 6.

That convinced me.  Still don't buy into the best PQ ever or must have part, but it looks very attractive for most builds now.

[Jack_Spade]

Actually, it doesn't really matter for JoaT which priority you choose:

I play a sum to 14 character that has 46/10 +4 from Magic B (adept) +2 Mentor Spirit skill points and I still have enough open spots that I invested in JoaT. There is just so much you can use one or two points of competency.

But...why? Shadowrunning is a team game. Sometimes a little redundancy is OK but generally, eh, it doesn't really help you very much.

Yes, and contributing to team checks is one of the many benefits a few skill points can make. Having one point in piloting VTOL or other (exotic) vehicles can make all the difference when you want to escape, as well as having one point in arcana is required for an adept to initiate (and I'll be damned if I invest more than one Karma into that otherwise useless skill). Than there is the massive range of exotic weaponry and a ton of skills you can't default on.
Fun fact: If you have someone acting as an instructor (p.141) with a successful instruction+charisma roll it takes no time at all (1 day - 1 day) to acquire a skill at rating 1
Combine that with turorsoft (p.442) that have their rating x2 to make such a test and that tutor soft can be acquired wirelessly and sent to your comlink, you just need to keep a few points of karma in reserve and become instantly competent 

[SoulGambit]

Hm... I think I'd allow instant training at my table because it's cool. I'm not so sure it's RAW. Don't skills still need "Downtime" to train them?

[Jack_Spade]

p.103: This training and practice normally takes place during the runner’s downtime. The time it takes to improve an attribute or skill is
meant to reflect the in-world time a character must invest in improving his abilities and is measured in days, weeks, or months.

Afterwards it only defines what you can do during downtime but it nowhere states that you can only train during downtime, just that you normally do.

So by RAW this flies 

[Overbyte]

I often take the approach that if you use a skill a lot during play, that IS the training time.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

As do I.  I have to say, though, that the smartest best cash-for-karma purchase in the game is (drumroll please) ... Rating 3 learning-stimulus neural amplifier hard nanobots, with (if your GM allows it) an external R3 hard nanohive.  At a functional 17,000¥ per level, you pay 51,000¥ for an up to 3-karma reduction in every level of Language or Knowledge skills you take.  Combine this with an adept's linguistic ability, and you could be speaking any language at a rating of 4 for a cost of 3 karma, a reduction of 70% - and knowing any skill at 4 for 4 karma, a reduction of 60%, and with an essence impact (again, if your GM allows you to purchase one at the same price, but outside of your body, requiring that the nanites be injected) of 0.

Mmmm, sweet sweet karma.

[DWC]

Hm... I think I'd allow instant training at my table because it's cool. I'm not so sure it's RAW. Don't skills still need "Downtime" to train them?

Skills beyond R4 have huge training times.  Those training times are large enough to make increasing skills past 6 almost never worth it.  That just makes JoAT even better.

[Facemage]

Joat is indeed very good. I checked some of the concepts:
Face: the best face is maybe adept face, and he does not rise social skills. The route initiate=> cool resolve or authoritative tone is much better. For cybered/mundane face joat is not good.
Spellcaster: No rising of magical skills. Karma goes to foci, initiates and magic attribute.
Decker: Rising of hacking is needed. Joat does not work.
Rigger: A lot of technical skills needed. Joat is good.
Sam: Joat is not good (typically the rising of automatics or pistols is needed)

Below are all general and useful skills. Every shadowrunner needs many of them (you can replace some of them (e.g. medicine) by money). The list is quite long.
Sneaking
Perception
Palming (if you want to hide your light pistol)
Impersonation (this is needed even if you get the disguise from somewhere else)
Etiquette
Con
Pilot groundcraft
Gymnastics
Running
First aid
Medicine (to speed the healing process)
Survival (depending on the campaign)
Demolitions (at least one in your team should have this. Decker and hermetic mages are good candidates. No need for high values)