[Whiskeyjack]

But he is a face. If you are going to important negotiation, expensive suit on you, do you have an assault rifle...
What do you think that the opponent side says?

Carry an SMG in a concealed holster. Street legal, can even take it into some AAA area clubs in all likelihood. Most Johnsons aren't going to be pissed you're packing at a meet unless they specifically tell you not to, or invite you someplace with a super strict "no weapons" policy.

Considering the many places one cal lawfully carry handguns these days, I expect gun laws to be even looser in the dystopian future.

[Csjarrat]

Yeah, given some of the suits come standard with a holster it's not beyond the bounds of possibility to slot a machine pistol into it for the meet

[ikarinokami]

Here is one example which is very strong with A in skills. He has no weaknesses in his skill pools to do his role as face or mage. He always throws at least 10 dices, very often 12 or even more. He can often (this depends on your gm that how often actually)  boosts himself to be more competent by alchemy. The only weaknesses are some low attributes. But if e.g. log is 3, it does not really help, if you don't have the skill.

A: Magic
A: Skills
E: Attributes
E: Resources
C: Metatype (elf)

Str: 1
Agi: 2
Bod: 2 (3)
Rea: 1 (5)
Will: 3
Int: 5
Cha: 8
Log: 1
Edge: 4
Magic: 6
Dodge: 11
Drain: 11

Adept Powers:
Increase reflexes 3
Combat sense 1
The next two abilities are because of spiritual way. He will take it after some runs. Other options are indeed possible.
Increase Body 1
Increase reaction 1

Skills:
Conjuring skill group 5
Influence skill group 5
Counterspelling 6 (+2 combat)
Spellcasting 6 (+2 combat)
Alchemy 6 (+2 command)
Con 6 (+2 fast talk)
Pistols 6 (+2 semiautomatics)
Perception 6
Sneaking 6 (+2 urban)
Intimidation 5
Impersonation 3

Spells:
Improved invisibility
Stun bolt
Blast
Clout
Increase willpower
Increase agility (alchemy)
Increase intuition (alchemy)
Levitate
Heal
Physical mask

Below is the same concept with B in skills. No specializations and several weaknesses in face skills. If he takes it, he can get +2 to his attributes (+2 to reaction or to willpower I think).
Influence skill group 5
Spellcasting: 6
Counterspelling: 6
Pistols: 6 (+2 semiautomatics)
Summoning: 6
Binding: 6
Etiquette: 0
Intimidation: 0
Sneaking: 6
Perception: 6
Impersonation: 0
Con: 3

As I said earlier he is weaker than a pure mage and a pure face together (two different characters played by two players). But if you have not enough players to do that?

The cost to rise your willpower to 5 is 45 karma. If you rise your skills to same levels as with A in skills, you have to pay >100 karma even with joat!

this character is pretty much the definition of Skills A trap. This character only really survives if the GM decides to pull punches, which some GMs do. my GM doesn't and this character would not survive.

Too many holes
too many weakness
too many things have to go just perfect for this character just to function much less excell

[ikarinokami]

I would do something like this. this character still has 42K to buy gear and a lifestyle and 6 karma.

a scout type character, not super great in combat, but can get the first punch in and then run for cover and go full defense

== Info ==
Name: Unnamed Character           Alias:
Elf                               Movement: 20/40
                                  Composure: 6
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 8
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 7 (30 kg/20 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 5
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 42500
Age:                              Skin:
Eyes:                             Hair:

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: B - 20 Attributes
Special: E - Mundane
Skills: A - 46 Skills/10 Skill Groups
Resources: C - 140,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 5                            CHA: 3
AGI: 7 (10)                       INT: 5
REA: 5 (7)                        LOG: 2
STR: 2                            WIL: 3
EDG: 2                           

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 4.26                     Initiative:           10 (12) + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 11         Rigger Init:          12 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:         
Physical: 6                       Matrix AR Init:       12 + 1d6
Mental: 4                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 5                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
Astral: 5

== Active Skills ==
Blades (Knives)                   Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 16 (18)
Con                               Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 9
Disguise                          Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 11
Etiquette                         Base: 2  + Karma: 0  = 2   Pool: 5
Gymnastics                        Base: 4  + Karma: 0  = 4   Pool: 14
Longarms (Sniper Rifles)          Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 16 (18)
Navigation                        Base: 4  + Karma: 0  = 4   Pool: 9
Palming                           Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 16
Perception (Visual)               Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 11 (13)
Pilot Ground Craft                Base: 1  + Karma: 0  = 1   Pool: 8
Pistols (Semi-Automatics)         Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 16 (18)
Running                           Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 5
Sneaking                          Base: 6  + Karma: 0  = 6   Pool: 16
Survival                          Base: 4  + Karma: 0  = 4   Pool: 7
Swimming                          Base: 3  + Karma: 0  = 3   Pool: 5
Throwing Weapons                  Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 11
Tracking                          Base: 4  + Karma: 0  = 4   Pool: 9

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Adrenaline Surge
Agile Defender
Allergy (Uncommon, Mild) (Wrought Iron)
Code of Honor (Assasins Creeed)
Low-Light Vision
SINner (National) (Tir Tangire)

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Image Link
Muscle Toner Rating 3
Reaction Enhancers Rating 2
Smartlink

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 9        Accuracy: 6     DV: 2S       AP: -     RC: 1

[Facemage]

At least in our tables a machine pistol is not a pistol, it's too big to concealable holster. Your rules may wary. And if it is allowed to put there, it is only -2 to perception test => even a child notices them without very high palming skill => even more skills is needed. Note also that I mean by Yakuza boss that he isn't your friend, he's your enemy.

Ikarinokami, how many players do you have in your tables? I do not recommend a character covering two archetypes if there are enough players to cover all 4-5 basic roles in runner team (mage, face, decker, sam and rigger). Core "single" archetypes are better, but if you have only 2-3 players, you cannot cover all roles...

Moreover, at least I cannot see very many situations in which this character is very weak. Skills, magic (for example levitate), spirits or gear helps a lot. Note that for example he is not good in climbing (gymnastics), but levitate solves the problem. But if your agi is 4 (typical value for a pure mage), how he can survive against sadistic gm, he is still rolling only 3 dices (no gymnastics because of C in skills)? This is a very big mystery to me.

[Marcus]

Your comment contains very many errors. First: He has only 2 attributes at 1 because reaction is 5. Second, the difference between A and B skills is 25 skill points, so it is not enough to move 14 points elsewhere. Even if 5 points are wasted to useless skill in skill group, and that's why released also. And so on.

I have played this concept already and it works. In our current run we are infiltrating to a camp in jungle and there is no background count. So if a pistol is needed, his pool is 13-14 (because of smart link and agility spell).It's not difficult to hit with that pool at least basic mooks. I use those alchemy spells almost everytime, more often than any other spells in my list, so I think that they are not waste. They are useful even in mild BC (1-3) environments. They are not necessary, only additional mild but nice bonuses.

First off 46/10 - 36/5 is not 25, it is in fact 15 or really 10/5. Multi-source magical boosting leaves you very vulnerable to even low back round count, even in a BC 1 your Reaction drop to a 3, not a good method.  Next Alchemy just isn't worth the points at present, to many restrictions and not enough benefit. If your going to have spellcasting at 6 alchemy is both inferior and redundant, a very poor combination.   You could just as easily have caste those spells the old fashioned way and it would have worked just as well.
Drop the two I mentioned Trim another point drop conjuring group, get summoning at 5 and your basically at Skill B, Use that point to raise Attributes to D, and you can probubly solved all the issues. 

[Whiskeyjack]

CHA mages should have Too Pretty To Hit.

INT and LOG mages just always need to take cover but INT mages probably have INT 6 and are therefore in a better position.

[Hobbes]

Here is one example which is very strong with A in skills. He has no weaknesses in his skill pools to do his role as face or mage. He always throws at least 10 dices, very often 12 or even more. He can often (this depends on your gm that how often actually)  boosts himself to be more competent by alchemy. The only weaknesses are some low attributes. But if e.g. log is 3, it does not really help, if you don't have the skill.

A: Magic
A: Skills
E: Attributes
E: Resources
C: Metatype (elf)

Str: 1
Agi: 2
Bod: 2 (3)
Rea: 1 (5)
Will: 3
Int: 5
Cha: 8
Log: 1
Edge: 4
Magic: 6
Dodge: 11
Drain: 11

Adept Powers:
Increase reflexes 3
Combat sense 1
The next two abilities are because of spiritual way. He will take it after some runs. Other options are indeed possible.
Increase Body 1
Increase reaction 1

Skills:
Conjuring skill group 5
Influence skill group 5
Counterspelling 6 (+2 combat)
Spellcasting 6 (+2 combat)
Alchemy 6 (+2 command)
Con 6 (+2 fast talk)
Pistols 6 (+2 semiautomatics)
Perception 6
Sneaking 6 (+2 urban)
Intimidation 5
Impersonation 3

Spells:
Improved invisibility
Stun bolt
Blast
Clout
Increase willpower
Increase agility (alchemy)
Increase intuition (alchemy)
Levitate
Heal
Physical mask

And here is the same concept with Skills B.  This one is more focused on Con and magical infiltration, its easy enough to swap around Mentor spirits and skill points to be more specialized in Negotiation and Legwork.
Also note, Priority build, not SUMto10.  SUMto10 is cheating.     

== Info ==
Street Name: Elf Mystic Adept
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 6/12
Karma: 1
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 13
Judge Intentions: 13
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 1050

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: C - 16 Attributes
Special: A - Magician or Technomancer
Skills: B - 36 Skills/5 Skill Groups
Resources: E - 6,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 3
REA: 1 (4)
STR: 1
CHA: 8
INT: 5
LOG: 1
WIL: 5
EDG: 1
MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                6 (9) + 4d6
Rigger Initiative:         9 + 4d6
Astral Initiative:         10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative:      9 + 4d6
Matrix Cold Initiative:    5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative:     5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Limits ==
Physical:                  3
Mental:                    4
Social:                    9
   Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral:                    9

== Active Skills ==
Binding                    : 6 [Spirits of Man]     Pool: 12 (14)
Con                        : 5                      Pool: 15
Counterspelling            : 6                      Pool: 12
Etiquette                  : 1  (from Karma)               Pool: 9 
Impersonation              : 5                      Pool: 13
Negotiation                : 6 [Bargaining]         Pool: 14 (16)
Perception                 : 6                      Pool: 11
Performance                : 5                      Pool: 13
Sneaking                   : 6                      Pool: 9
Spellcasting               : 6 [Manipulation]       Pool: 12 (14)
Summoning                  : 6 [Spirits of Man]     Pool: 12 (14)

== Knowledge Skills ==
Gangs                      : 3                      Pool: 8
Magical Theory             : 6                      Pool: 7
Sprawl Life                : 3                      Pool: 8

== Contacts ==
Corporate Secretary (2, 1)
Talismonger (4, 3)
Gang Leader (2, 5)
Fixer (5, 2)

== Qualities ==
Focused Concentration (Rating 3)
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Raven)
Mystic Adept  - 6 PP - 30 Karma
Prejudiced (Specific, Biased) (Technology)
SINer (National) UCAS
Dependant (Nuisance)
Allergy (Uncommon Moderate) - Silver
Addiction (Mild, Cigs)

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Shamanic, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (13))
Ball Lightning             DV: F-1
Control Thoughts (Limited) DV: F-3
Heal                       DV: F-4
Increase Charisma     DV: F-3
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Mob Mind (Limited)         DV: F-1
Physical Mask              DV: F-1
Shapechange                DV: F-3
Stunbolt                   DV: F-3

== Powers ==
Astral Perception
Combat Sense Rating: 3
Improved Reflexes 3

== Lifestyles ==
Rooftop Squat  1 months

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                        12
Ballistic Mask                      2

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 2   Accuracy: 3   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 1

== Gear ==
Cheap Pre-paid Commlink x5
Fetish
Reagents, per dram x50
Survival Kit

[Kincaid]

But he is a face. If you are going to important negotiation, expensive suit on you, do you have an assault rifle...
What do you think that the opponent side says?

Carry an SMG in a concealed holster. Street legal, can even take it into some AAA area clubs in all likelihood. Most Johnsons aren't going to be pissed you're packing at a meet unless they specifically tell you not to, or invite you someplace with a super strict "no weapons" policy.

Considering the many places one cal lawfully carry handguns these days, I expect gun laws to be even looser in the dystopian future.

Off topic, but I see SMGs in concealed holsters enough that I want to point out that only pistols and tasers fit in them.  In the above scenario you could obviously just swap a machine pistol in.

[ikarinokami]

At least in our tables a machine pistol is not a pis

tol, it's too big to concealable holster. Your rules may wary. And if it is allowed to put there, it is only -2 to perception test => even a child notices them without very high palming skill => even more skills is needed. Note also that I mean by Yakuza boss that he isn't your friend, he's your enemy.

Ikarinokami, how many players do you have in your tables? I do not recommend a character covering two archetypes if there are enough players to cover all 4-5 basic roles in runner team (mage, face, decker, sam and rigger). Core "single" archetypes are better, but if you have only 2-3 players, you cannot cover all roles...

Moreover, at least I cannot see very many situations in which this character is very weak. Skills, magic (for example levitate), spirits or gear helps a lot. Note that for example he is not good in climbing (gymnastics), but levitate solves the problem. But if your agi is 4 (typical value for a pure mage), how he can survive against sadistic gm, he is still rolling only 3 dices (no gymnastics because of C in skills)? This is a very big mystery to me.

Your base agility without the spell is too low. Why? Grenades are exceptionally dangerous to low soak characters. If you don't that spell on and you run into trouble your dead.

Sustaining agility and reaction with alchemy is way too risky. Because of limitations, and worse yet, these aren't spells that make you better they are spells that make you viable. That's a big no-no

Second your limit is only 3 for both physical and mental so those points in sneak and perception are useless to you unlessess you are fully  buff or wireless. They are many times we you won't be buff or can't risk wireless.

You cannot make an active meat space runner with E attributes. That's another main cause of the A Skills trap the belief that you can get away with low attributes you cannot. Unless you are going to be an off site Decker or cocoon rigger E attributes are not viable.

It's not even so much the A Skills but the E attributes that just kills this character. You don't have the core attributes to support your skills or even your survivable except under perfect circumstances, which is a trap in and of itself.

Your character should be able to be fully viable even under less than ideal conditions.

[Facemage]

Here is one example which is very strong with A in skills. He has no weaknesses in his skill pools to do his role as face or mage. He always throws at least 10 dices, very often 12 or even more. He can often (this depends on your gm that how often actually)  boosts himself to be more competent by alchemy. The only weaknesses are some low attributes. But if e.g. log is 3, it does not really help, if you don't have the skill.

A: Magic
A: Skills
E: Attributes
E: Resources
C: Metatype (elf)

Str: 1
Agi: 2
Bod: 2 (3)
Rea: 1 (5)
Will: 3
Int: 5
Cha: 8
Log: 1
Edge: 4
Magic: 6
Dodge: 11
Drain: 11

Adept Powers:
Increase reflexes 3
Combat sense 1
The next two abilities are because of spiritual way. He will take it after some runs. Other options are indeed possible.
Increase Body 1
Increase reaction 1

Skills:
Conjuring skill group 5
Influence skill group 5
Counterspelling 6 (+2 combat)
Spellcasting 6 (+2 combat)
Alchemy 6 (+2 command)
Con 6 (+2 fast talk)
Pistols 6 (+2 semiautomatics)
Perception 6
Sneaking 6 (+2 urban)
Intimidation 5
Impersonation 3

Spells:
Improved invisibility
Stun bolt
Blast
Clout
Increase willpower
Increase agility (alchemy)
Increase intuition (alchemy)
Levitate
Heal
Physical mask

And here is the same concept with Skills B.  This one is more focused on Con and magical infiltration, its easy enough to swap around Mentor spirits and skill points to be more specialized in Negotiation and Legwork.
Also note, Priority build, not SUMto10.  SUMto10 is cheating.     

== Info ==
Street Name: Elf Mystic Adept
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 6/12
Karma: 1
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 13
Judge Intentions: 13
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 1050

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: C - 16 Attributes
Special: A - Magician or Technomancer
Skills: B - 36 Skills/5 Skill Groups
Resources: E - 6,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 3
REA: 1 (4)
STR: 1
CHA: 8
INT: 5
LOG: 1
WIL: 5
EDG: 1
MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                6 (9) + 4d6
Rigger Initiative:         9 + 4d6
Astral Initiative:         10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative:      9 + 4d6
Matrix Cold Initiative:    5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative:     5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Limits ==
Physical:                  3
Mental:                    4
Social:                    9
   Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral:                    9

== Active Skills ==
Binding                    : 6 [Spirits of Man]     Pool: 12 (14)
Con                        : 5                      Pool: 15
Counterspelling            : 6                      Pool: 12
Etiquette                  : 1  (from Karma)               Pool: 9 
Impersonation              : 5                      Pool: 13
Negotiation                : 6 [Bargaining]         Pool: 14 (16)
Perception                 : 6                      Pool: 11
Performance                : 5                      Pool: 13
Sneaking                   : 6                      Pool: 9
Spellcasting               : 6 [Manipulation]       Pool: 12 (14)
Summoning                  : 6 [Spirits of Man]     Pool: 12 (14)

== Knowledge Skills ==
Gangs                      : 3                      Pool: 8
Magical Theory             : 6                      Pool: 7
Sprawl Life                : 3                      Pool: 8

== Contacts ==
Corporate Secretary (2, 1)
Talismonger (4, 3)
Gang Leader (2, 5)
Fixer (5, 2)

== Qualities ==
Focused Concentration (Rating 3)
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Raven)
Mystic Adept  - 6 PP - 30 Karma
Prejudiced (Specific, Biased) (Technology)
SINer (National) UCAS
Dependant (Nuisance)
Allergy (Uncommon Moderate) - Silver
Addiction (Mild, Cigs)

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Shamanic, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (13))
Ball Lightning             DV: F-1
Control Thoughts (Limited) DV: F-3
Heal                       DV: F-4
Increase Charisma     DV: F-3
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Mob Mind (Limited)         DV: F-1
Physical Mask              DV: F-1
Shapechange                DV: F-3
Stunbolt                   DV: F-3

== Powers ==
Astral Perception
Combat Sense Rating: 3
Improved Reflexes 3

== Lifestyles ==
Rooftop Squat  1 months

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                        12
Ballistic Mask                      2

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 2   Accuracy: 3   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 1

== Gear ==
Cheap Pre-paid Commlink x5
Fetish
Reagents, per dram x50
Survival Kit

No Intimidation and etiquette (note that the test is opposed test). No pistols (you cannot hide your magical abilities as Long as possible), so they will geek you first. Edge is 1. He has several weaknesses in his face skills => he is not a good face.

[Whiskeyjack]

Not to get too much into debating a particular build, but what? Etiquette pool of 9 is sufficient. You can hold out as a mage sure but to that end is trade a spell for Chaotic World because the area debuff helps protect you. Intimidation and Leadership are hardly "necessary" for a good face.

[Facemage]

Make an etiquette + charisma [social] test against the other person's perception + charisma [social] opposed test. If you get any net hits, they'll accept you (crb p. 141). If the other person is a basic runner, your probability is like 50% => someone notices you. I cannot understand that how the etiquette 1 is enough, it is opposed test.

Another mystery is that sams are good in intimidation with their typically 1 charisma... If their intimidation is e.g. 5. Well, good luck with that.

If you have not leadership or pistols and you cannot use magic (BC is very high or something like that), you can do nothing in firefight...

Chaotic world costs only 5 karma, it's not difficult to learn that after the first run. It is good spell!

[Whiskeyjack]

Why would GMs tell you to remake?

[Whiskeyjack]

Clearly such a character is tenacious, street smart and can talk their way out of bad situations, despite not cultivating their strength and hand-eye coordination and possibly growing up without access to (or completely blowing off) formal education.

EDIT: just pretend I didn't respond if my response would kick off another round of arguments about what Attribute 1 "means," it's not an interesting discussion after being rehashed a dozen times and it'd be off topic to boot.