[Facemage]

Well, it is quite easy to summon F7 spirit (if your magic is 7). The binding it is an another story...

The spirit resists binding with 14 dices => your dice pool should be very high to have higher probabilities than 50%. I think that I would not want to try to bind it with 8 (6 in summoning + specialization) in binding and 7 in magic. 15 dices is not enough.

Moreover, the binding cost is 25*20*7 = 3500. If you have 8 F7 spirits, you have to spend 28 000 nyuen. I think that this happens only in very prime runner levels (and never in normal tables).

One summoned unbound F7 spirit is a solid strategy.

[Marcus]

Those touch trigger rules are only houserules. And if your table restricts the trigger, use command trigger.

What Firebug said is straight out of SG . The whole Alchemy system is a boondoggle, until its revised an clarified it should simply be ignored.   

[Facemage]

You might be correct, I need to read more SG. But at least command trigger works and it is for the time being enough for me. My character uses alchemy preparations more than any other spell in his arsenal, so it is useful. Not very strong, but not useless.

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm honestly glad someone is getting some use it of it.

[Hobbes]

One of my Players will be trying out a Astral Warrior build.  Will spend most of the run in Astral and use Summoning and Alchemy to contribute to the team.  Likely won't even leave the apartment if possible.  Abysmal Physical stats but silly mental stats and a weapon focus.

Anyway, for that specific character concept Alchemy was kinda the bit that pushed it into "playable".

Other than oddball character concepts though, yeah, low value.  Better than Banishing though.   

[Facemage]

What Firebug said is straight out of SG . The whole Alchemy system is a boondoggle, until its revised an clarified it should simply be ignored.   

Which pages in SG contain those rules? I can only find brewmaster witch/warlock who creates harmless drinks with contact trigger. So, if it can contain entertainment spell, it can contain also fireball? Only restriction seems to be a potion, which is not possible.

[falar]

I'm currently attempting to rewrite Alchemy to be more functional, but it's kind of slow going. There's a lot about it that's just ... not workable. I have a lot of spaghetti that I've thrown against the wall in my head, but I'm not finding anything that really clicks for me.

The more I try to look at it as an alternate way to cast spells, the less it seems to be worth doing it that way without sliding around a lot of how it works. Like possibly mostly ditching drain, but making the up-front karma costs be higher.

[Hobbes]

I'm currently attempting to rewrite Alchemy to be more functional, but it's kind of slow going. There's a lot about it that's just ... not workable. I have a lot of spaghetti that I've thrown against the wall in my head, but I'm not finding anything that really clicks for me.

The more I try to look at it as an alternate way to cast spells, the less it seems to be worth doing it that way without sliding around a lot of how it works. Like possibly mostly ditching drain, but making the up-front karma costs be higher.

Alchemy has it's mechanical niche.  It can be splashed in a standard mage build and have limited tactical use.  *or* oddball builds could use it.  The mostly Astral mage, or I could see a Mystic Adept that goes the non-standard route of being primarily a Physical Adept.  Alchemy has it's limited use, and really that's okay.  If you want Alchemy to be more like Spellcasting, maybe you just play a spellcaster? 

But really, you want to buff Alchemy, lower the drain codes.  Instead of +1 or +2 DV make the triggers a -1 or -2 DV.  It doesn't seem like much, but all of a sudden you'll have a mage with a Bat Belt full of magic rocks because they'll be able to create dozens of preparations without drain.  And if you don't have to recover from Drain, you'll be cranking out preparations right up until you get to the run.

[falar]

I must admit that I mainly want Aspected Mages to be viable characters. If they're not viable characters, then they shouldn't be in the book as character options.

[Whiskeyjack]

One of my Players will be trying out a Astral Warrior build.  Will spend most of the run in Astral and use Summoning and Alchemy to contribute to the team.  Likely won't even leave the apartment if possible.  Abysmal Physical stats but silly mental stats and a weapon focus.

How is that working out?

So the character mainly works by being on the astral, summoning, spirits, and having them Materialize to help the team?

[Hobbes]

One of my Players will be trying out a Astral Warrior build.  Will spend most of the run in Astral and use Summoning and Alchemy to contribute to the team.  Likely won't even leave the apartment if possible.  Abysmal Physical stats but silly mental stats and a weapon focus.

How is that working out?

So the character mainly works by being on the astral, summoning, spirits, and having them Materialize to help the team?

Hasn't played it yet so I can't say, he's still tinkering with it.  But yeah, hand out Preparations to the team, lurk on Astral and use Spirits.  Seems like it'll be a decent contributor.  Likely not as good as a "real mage" but for the character concept it works. 

[Hobbes]

I must admit that I mainly want Aspected Mages to be viable characters. If they're not viable characters, then they shouldn't be in the book as character options.

Aspected Mages are not worthwhile as written.  If you're using Priorities you need to add a huge stack of goodies to make Aspected mages worth considering.  Enchanting Adepts are particularly difficult since Alchemy and Enchanting are just not as useful to a Shadowrunner as a Sorcery and Conjuring. 

See http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22032.0  second post down is a re-written priority chart I'll be using for my next game.  It makes it at least thinkable someone would play an Aspected mage instead of a Mystic Adept.  Probably not, but a player may think about it for a bit. 

If you're using an alternate char gen method you're on your own.  But Aspected Mages need huge piles of love to be worth taking over a regular mage. 

[falar]

I'm OP of that post.

[Hibiki54]

A house rule I have been considering is for Alchemy is to allow reagents to have the option of extending the time for potency depending on the grade of reagent used.

Alchemy + Magic VS Preparation Force = Potency / Potency x 2 = Hours at Full Strength

For example -- Alchemy 6 + Magic 6 [4 avg] vs Force 6 [2 avg] = Potency 2, which lasts for 4 hours

My idea is that you can spend reagent drams to increase the Potency strength multiplier. I was thinking for every 5 raw drams you increase the mutiplier by 1

Example -- Spend 5 drams. Alchemy 6 + Magic 6 [4 avg] vs Force 6 [2 avg] = Potency 2 x 3, which lasts for 6 hours
Example with Optimization -- Spend 5 drams. Alchemy 6 + Spec 2 + Magic 7 + Mentor 2 + Foci 4 [7 avg] vs Force 6 [2 avg] = Potency 5 x 3, which lasts for 15 hours

Using the optimized example, if you spend 20 drams (400 nuyen), you would get a multipler of x 5 for a full strength potency that last 25 hours.

As for other reagents:
5 Refined Reagents (350ea, 1750 total) would change the shelf life from hours to days (Alchemy 6 + Magic 6 [4 avg] vs Force 6 [2 avg] = Potency 2 x 2 = 4 days) and the bleed off is in days instead of hours.
1 Radical Reagent (4500ea) would change the shelf life from hours to weeks (Alchemy 6 + Magic 6 [4 avg] vs Force 6 [2 avg] = Potency 2 x 2 = 4 weeks), the drain resisted is doubled, and instead of bleeding off the Potency completely become inert and unusable when the shelf life is up.

What do you think?

[Marcus]

What Firebug said is straight out of SG . The whole Alchemy system is a boondoggle, until its revised an clarified it should simply be ignored.   

Which pages in SG contain those rules? I can only find brewmaster witch/warlock who creates harmless drinks with contact trigger. So, if it can contain entertainment spell, it can contain also fireball? Only restriction seems to be a potion, which is not possible.

Page 210 the Side bar. That quick answer section right there sums up all the problem with Alchemy. Including 1 use per combat turn. Until that whole mess is cleaned up forget it.

"Preparations with a contact trigger affect the magician and
opponent alike after the magician completes the preparation
and stops touching the preparation. This is similar to the delay
from a hand grenade"

This effectively makes Contact trigger useless, other then as some kind of pressure sensor.
The Advanced meta magic versions are a little more forgiving but they are also drain heavy and even more costly to get into.
They Need to clean up that mess and make Alchemy viable. Healing potions should work fine, and would make alchemy viable.
But whoever is in charge of balance some how feels, Alchemy was too strong but RiM was just fine, it just blows me away.