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Reasonably character concept (conjuring adept)

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falar

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« Reply #15 on: <10-27-15/1437:03> »
I sorta would like to try a group with all-lifepath chars once, since you tend to build you Runners quite different with it.

After I run my current game to completion (which who knows when that will be), I plan to have my next game be all Life Modules. By that time, I expect them to be pretty robust and I LIKE THEM A LOT.

Glyph

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« Reply #16 on: <10-27-15/2127:07> »
Just for kicks I gave a quick try at making this work with the lifestyle modules, and holy cow did that fail hard!  LM system seems to be pretty tough on meta-humans that want to max out their strong attributes, and magicians in general (first go dump 100 karma into buying up your magic, if you want it maxed, then buy your spells if you use them, etc).  But maybe my problem was mostly not going through magical training?

The magical training is the biggie.  It lets you start on two magical skill groups, with the only downside is that you have to take the wage mage life module - hardly a chore, since that is one of the two real life modules that gives a significant boost to magical skills (the other one is street magic, especially street mage or street shaman).  Later modules will probably have more awakened options, but right now an academic-type path is the only strong option for mages (and aspected mages lack many good options at all).

Beta

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« Reply #17 on: <10-27-15/2206:18> »
  (and aspected mages lack many good options at all).

Seems to be a bit of a theme in fifth :-(

falar

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« Reply #18 on: <10-27-15/2239:28> »
  (and aspected mages lack many good options at all).

Seems to be a bit of a theme in fifth :-(

All us Aspected Magician lovers have to go cry in a corner until someone at Catalyst decides they want Aspected Magicians to be viable. :( Or we have our comprehensive house rules!

Dinendae

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« Reply #19 on: <10-28-15/0034:03> »
Just for kicks I gave a quick try at making this work with the lifestyle modules, and holy cow did that fail hard!  LM system seems to be pretty tough on meta-humans that want to max out their strong attributes, and magicians in general (first go dump 100 karma into buying up your magic, if you want it maxed, then buy your spells if you use them, etc).  But maybe my problem was mostly not going through magical training?

The magical training is the biggie.  It lets you start on two magical skill groups, with the only downside is that you have to take the wage mage life module - hardly a chore, since that is one of the two real life modules that gives a significant boost to magical skills (the other one is street magic, especially street mage or street shaman).  Later modules will probably have more awakened options, but right now an academic-type path is the only strong option for mages (and aspected mages lack many good options at all).

Technomancer life modules are rather lacking as well. I tried to make a life module version of the Technomancer reporter, but no matter which modules I took I couldn't build a functioning Technomancer who was at least as good as that priority Techno-Reporter archetype.

Halinn

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« Reply #20 on: <10-28-15/0820:43> »
  (and aspected mages lack many good options at all).

Seems to be a bit of a theme in fifth :-(

All us Aspected Magician lovers have to go cry in a corner until someone at Catalyst decides they want Aspected Magicians to be viable. :( Or we have our comprehensive house rules!

I also wish there were aspected mysads.

Beta

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« Reply #21 on: <10-28-15/0900:03> »

I also wish there were aspected mysads.

Yah, I've been tempted to house rule mysads as being adept + aspected mage. 

And while on that topic, I think I'm persuaded for the character I was working on to go the mysad route.  Magic priority three gives 3 magic rating either way, with aspected giving one magic skill group starting at 2*, while mysad gives 5 spells and access to pretty much everything, and I can choose where to focus.  i.e. can still be a summoner with some adept powers (although, what to do with the 5 spells is an interesting question).

Dinendae

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« Reply #22 on: <10-28-15/1046:48> »

I also wish there were aspected mysads.

Yah, I've been tempted to house rule mysads as being adept + aspected mage. 


With nerfing them into oblivion in the SR4A errata, and some still saying they were overpowered after that, I'm surprised they didn't remove aspected mages and do just that (making the mystic adept an aspected mage + adept). It wouldn't have made everyone happy, but you're never going to. Maybe we'll see that in SR6?  ??? After all, Rigger 5 is right around the corner!  ;D

Beta

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« Reply #23 on: <10-30-15/1258:29> »
OK, current, almost final, build along these lines below.  Would like any final advice/feedback, especially around adept power and ritual magic (or alternatively alchemy.  End up with five spells and almost no skill to use them).  First some general notes:

- Built with sum-to-ten

- Mystic Adept, no spellcasting but no quality preventing it. 

- Have 5 free spells so took one point of Ritual Magic, and need to figure out what rituals to buy (for later, when she has some skill, or for teaming with others).  Could equally go with alchemy, but I'm not sure what use you can make out of seven dice in alchemy?

- Skill groups are one point in each of Influence and Athletics, to give non-default in a number of skills (Influence mostly for defensive or teamwork tests, Athletics for getting around).

- I've gone with automatics rather than pistols, although I'm torn on that (pistols: concealment, tasers / automatics: flexibility--including higher top end damage, covering fire) I have switched back and forth several times.

- moved from unarmed to clubs.  In character background: In prison she always managed to scrounge up items to make a sap or blackjack of some sort (really should have one point in armory to support that, but not sure where I'd take that from), and shock batons have a reasonable chance of hurting even force seven spirits (hitting those can be a different issue). 

- no binding at all right now, nor banishing.  also no reagents or lodge to do any binding in :p  (character is very tight on nuyen)

- dropped Spirit Affinity for one more PP and (indirectly) specialty in summoning Air Spirits

- completely crappy commlink for now -- then again she can comfortably run 'wireless off' most of the time.  High priority to replace.  (The second commlink is to leave with her sister, in case the parole system does a check on her--fluff on how she deals with a criminal SIN)


== Info ==
Street Name: Forty
Elf
Nuyen: 5

== Priorities ==
Metatype: C(2) -  Elf,
Attributes: A(4) - 24 Attributes
Special: C(2) - Mystic Adept
Skills: C(2) - 28 Skills/2 Skill Groups
Resources: E(0) - 6,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 6
REA: 5 (7)
STR: 3
CHA: 8
INT: 5
LOG: 2
WIL: 4
EDG: 1
MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                10 (12) + 3d6
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         10

== Limits ==
Physical:                  6
Mental:                    5
Social:                    9
Astral:                    9

== Active Skills ==
Automatics                 : 6                      Pool: 12
Clubs                        : 6                      Pool: 12
Etiquette                  : 1                      Pool: 9
Gymnastics                 : 1                      Pool: 7
Intimidation               : 6                      Pool: 16
Leadership                 : 1                      Pool: 9
Negotiation                : 1                      Pool: 9
Perception                 : 2                      Pool: 8
Performance                : 1                      Pool: 9
Ritual Spellcasting     : 1                      Pool: 7
Running                    : 1                      Pool: 4
Sneaking                   : 1                      Pool: 7
Summoning              : 6 [Spirits of Air]     Pool: 12 (14)
Swimming                   : 1                      Pool: 4


== Knowledge Skills ==
Birds of the Pacific NW : 3                      Pool: 5
Japanese                        : 2                      Pool: 7
Orcish percussion         : 2                      Pool: 7
Seattle criminal underworld : 5                      Pool: 10
Shinto Ritual                   : 2                      Pool: 4

== Contacts ==
3-Dot; Seattle; ID Manufacturer (2, 1)
Heather (est. NPC); Pullayup; Gang Leader (4, 4)
Iridescent Shadow; Renton; Dwarf BTL&drug dealer/connaisseur (3, 4)
June Mayfield; Redmond; Grassroots Politician (3, 3)

== Qualities ==
Dependent (Inconvenience)
Gremlins (Rating 1)
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Thunderbird)
Mystic Adept
Prejudiced (Common, Biased) (Humans)
SINner (Criminal) (Cop killer)
Too Pretty To Hit

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Shinto, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (12))
Homunculus                 DV: Special
Ward                       DV: Special
Watcher                    DV: Special

== Powers ==
Combat Sense Rating: 1
Enhanced Perception Rating: 1
Freefall Rating: 1
Hang Time Rating: 1
Improved Reflexes 2
Kinesics Rating: 1
Light Body Rating: 2
Nimble Fingers

== Lifestyles ==
Craptastic apt. w/ chiphead sister  1 months

== Armor ==
Armor Vest                          9

== Weapons ==
Sap
   Pool: 12   Accuracy: 5   DV: 5P   AP: -   RC: 2
Steyr TMP
   +Laser Sight
   Pool: 12   Accuracy: 5   DV: 7P   AP: -   RC: 2
Stun Baton
   Pool: 12   Accuracy: 4   DV: 9S(e)   AP: -5   RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 5   Accuracy: 6   DV: 3S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Commlink ==
Sony Angel (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 1, FWL: 1)
Sony Angel (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 1, FWL: 1)

== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x30
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Machine Pistols) x10
Certified Credstick, Silver
Earbuds Rating 1
Fake SIN (Gabriela Martinez) Rating 3
Spare Clip (Steyr TMP)
Subvocal Mic
« Last Edit: <10-30-15/1348:19> by Beta »

falar

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« Reply #24 on: <10-30-15/1343:26> »
Just some minor recommendations:

  • Move a point from Agility or Reaction to Willpower. You can always use more drain resistance.
  • Drop Influence Group. Your pools are too low to matter/require the rest of your 'run team to call you the boss. Switch to Acting - Con, Performance and Impersonation are handier at your low dice pool ratings.
  • Drop Automatics by a point to pick up a specialty in Machine Pistols
  • Drop Clubs by a point to pick up a specialty in Batons. Swap Sap for Extendable Baton.
  • Consider taking Door Wards from Street Grimoire as another Ritual
  • Your Adept powers are not that optimized, but that's okay. I actually like the whole climbing, falling thing she's got going on, but it should pair with higher Gymnastics

Honestly, and this is weird, I might consider dropping to Attributes B to get Skills B. I think you'd really benefit from the 5 group points as opposed to two (get the Athletics group up to 3 or 4). It would also allow you to flesh up Ritual Spellcasting to get ROPE HOMONCULI AROUND YOUR ARMS AT ALL TIMES.

ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #25 on: <10-30-15/1848:32> »
  • Drop Automatics by a point to pick up a specialty in Machine Pistols
  • Drop Clubs by a point to pick up a specialty in Batons. Swap Sap for Extendable Baton.
But a spec costs 7 karma while raising skill 5->6 costs 12! And I believe that raising a skill needs more time too. I may be wrong about it though.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

FST_Gemstar

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« Reply #26 on: <10-30-15/2341:23> »
Looking good!

A few notes though:

Attributes: As Falar said, getting Willpower to 5 would be nice. It's an extra box on your stun track and will help with drain and healing. Some folks don't like having stats at 1, but if you are willing, your moving a point from Logic to Willpower could be useful.  It doesn't mean the character is stupid, perhaps just more intuitive and people smart than book smart.This will allow you to keep your other stats up too, and you don't have any logic linked skills anyway.

Adept powers: Enhanced perception is opportunistically expensive if you have a lower perception skill (as you do) and without astral perception/assensing. I like having a former inmate having Nimble Fingers, but the character doesn't have any skills in palming, musical performance, or lockpicking to really take advantage of the benefit. Perhaps it can wait until after you get more power points or take a Way. I like the idea of the climbing focus, but the skills as written are kind of low to justify all of the adept power points towards it, especially with only one rank in each power. Falling from the side of a building is still going to hurt this character, with or without the adept powers. I do like the idea of rope homunculi (it's genius) which may actually make the power spread work... Though if you want to go more face, taking 2 or 3 ranks of Authoritative Tone and Commanding Voice, even with a low leadership skill, could really help this character take on more "face" duties confidently. For 6 power points, I would go:
Improved Reflexes 2, Combat Sense 1, Commanding Voice 1, Authoritative Tone 3, Agility Boost 1, and Facial Sculpt 1.

Skills: The only other note I really have is the tight squeeze of competencies you are trying to get out of the character while maintaining maxed skills in two weapon competencies. Even a lot of street samurai run with one kind of weapon skill, as you can only use one weapon at once in combat. If it were me, and I know this doesn't gel as well with your concept, but I would drop melee weapons all together. Clubs/unarmed/whatever, your strength isn't high enough to really be a melee combat monster, and those skill points could be used elsewhere. Stun batons can hurt some spririts, but the character is a conjurer and can use spirits to fight spirits with more effect. The character is so intimidating she can threaten someone with a tennis racket without actually knowing how to beat someone up with it. Holding a blunt weapon may be enough for this character without having to me a master in using it.  In an actual fight, a gun and a spirit go a long way. With those 6 points you can actually max Negotiations and more fully occupy a face role, and/or you can learn a little binding to keep spirits on call (and with high charisma you can keep up to 8!), or you can be more B&E/climby or cast  more powerful rituals. The character is an ambitious concept wanting to do a lot: She is good in a fight with one weapon skill, she is not better enough in said fight with two weapons skills, but misses out on other key areas she wants to be good in if she has two skills. The other minor tweak I would have would be to put all of your skill group points in stealth. Palming/Disguise/Sneaking take advantage of the character's high agility/intuition and may come into play more. The difference in the influence group dice pools between having a skill group point there or not is negligible (7 or 9 in negotiation, most fixers/johnsons are going to be better at it than you. Ettiquette/Impersonation 7 vs. 9 won't make much a of a difference either). If you are only going to have one point in gymnastics, just buy it with karma. Swimming or running I wouldn't worry too much about (just don't do a lot sprinting/swimming if you don't have to).

Ok. More notes than I thought. Basically: move a point of logic to willpower. I would suggest optimizing adept powers to be more face-centric. Move skill points in clubs elsewhere (All Negotiation would be my choice, but some binding or ritual magic would work for me too). Put skill group points into stealth.

I really really like this concept! Conjurer who can summon some mean Air spirits, hold her own in a fight, and make her enemies cower. I have lots of respect for players/characters who don't play spellcasters with the same spells. I think the character is really interesting and can be a great add to a team. She has a lot of growth potential (I can see taking The Spiritual Way for boosted conjuring dice and discounted adept powers, and initiating into Invocation for Great Form Air Spirits and maybe even an Ally Spirit!)
« Last Edit: <10-31-15/0131:05> by FST_Gemstar »

falar

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« Reply #27 on: <10-31-15/1410:20> »
  • Drop Automatics by a point to pick up a specialty in Machine Pistols
  • Drop Clubs by a point to pick up a specialty in Batons. Swap Sap for Extendable Baton.
But a spec costs 7 karma while raising skill 5->6 costs 12! And I believe that raising a skill needs more time too. I may be wrong about it though.
During character creation, a spec costs one skill point. So you spend one skill point to get effectively two skill points. As long as you buy your things carefully, it'll be a lot better.

That said, you're probably also not going to be increasing these skills much beyond this point. Conjuring will get you MUCH BETTER STUFF. These will be more of your backup skills or skills you use after you've got your spirits going.

Beta

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« Reply #28 on: <10-31-15/1452:34> »
More great feedback, thanks!

Logic is two only from spending ten karma.  Clearly a bad investment, but barring odd character concepts I'm just not comfortable with stats of 1 on my characters.  The idea that your default on any logic skill is 0 is just more than I'm willing to handle, role-playing wise.  Not being too good at thinking things through is one thing, being essentially incapable of it is another.  Nothing against people who are happy with '1', but I'll accept the power hit.

The melee skill and strength of 3 was really all to reflect the character concept in my head.  My inspirations were more along the line of  Sarah Carter from from Terminator 2, rather than the classic elven maiden.  Visibly tough, not so pretty but yet riveting in her own way.  Plus to reflect surviving decades in high security prison where she couldn't openly use magic (and didn't even really understand that she had magic for much of that time).

That being said ... Yah, 12 points in combat skills when her prime thing is summoning is probably too much.  Grumble.  For power reasons I'd drop the melee, for fluff reasons I'd halve the pistol or automatics skill, and I guess I just have to make a choice. 

Adept powers are designed to grow into.  MySads only get more PP from initiation (or sort of, from foci), but skills can be brought in play, so I was kind of targetting what powers I'd like with another 30 karma in skills, and a tatoo for astral perception.  But if I'm going to be buying up so many low skills I really should find room for Jack of All Trades.

So I guess at least one more pass at the character.

Duellist_D

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« Reply #29 on: <10-31-15/1808:49> »
Keep the automatics skill at 6, remove all points from blunts, then use one of these to get the automatics specialization on top. After that, buy one level of blunts with Karma to reflect that part of your backgroundstory.
With your high agility, the single skillpoint makes the difference between unusable and handy backup (with a shock-based weapon) and getting that with a BP instead of Karma would be a waste.

Also stay with automatics instead of pistols.
You have your magic for the heavy hitting, use extended mags from Hard Targets with suppressive fire to keep the enemies from easily shooting you (maybe throw in a smoke for the fun) while your spirits take care of them.