[Rift_0f_Bladz]

I actually considered it, but then I figured that a hacker wouldn't probably be using an RCC. However, had I added that line in, I could have listed a tenth line for Datajacks ...

A technomancer does get access to Signal Scrub, Quiet Echo, Decrease Noise spell, and Fresnel Fabric for noise reduction though. That's still a fair bit, especially considering that Fresnel Fabric is limited only by your cash.

Which could be quite a lot, since Technomacers dont have to spend a small fortune on a deck.

[falar]

A technomancer does get access to Signal Scrub, Quiet Echo, Decrease Noise spell, and Fresnel Fabric for noise reduction though. That's still a fair bit, especially considering that Fresnel Fabric is limited only by your cash.

Which could be quite a lot, since Technomacers dont have to spend a small fortune on a deck.

You could get a Fresnel Fabric Cloak with Rating 10 noise reduction for just over 10k nuyen. That's probably all you ever need.

[Krindi]

I'm guilty of building a decker with overclocker, and perfect time positive qualities, with a 9 agil cyberarm for gunfights.  I went with the Microtronica Azteca 300 for 200k¥ and can't see any value to purchasing a more expensive deck during char creation.  PT allows for attribute swapping cheese and the Azteca 300 saves 145k over the Sony CIY-720 (allowing for a 4th program) or 131k over the Shiawase Cyber-4.  As an AR decker, data processing has decreased value as it's not setting initiative, so modify matrix attribute for 4 packs of parts sets array at 8521, for data spikes overclocker allows the 8 to become a 9 and use virtual machine (decryption, hammer), fork, and configurator (defense) to swap back and forth between attack and defense modes.

Much of the time is spent with attack at 1 and sleaze bumped up high for security.  Smoke and mirrors 5 cheese is also coming into play here.

With that as a benchmark, my upgrade cheapest option to obtain a higher maximum stat in the array is the Xiao MPG-1 at 302k with 13R, which is a huge expense so I don't anticipate it actually occurring during the life of the game.

I would absolutely love some sort of modular system (as some outlined previously in this thread showcase) that allows tinkering with the device based on hardware and other skills, and sets costs for increasing attributes based on current levels and such. 

Refactoring the costs of the existing cyberdecks based on whatever formula and allow the decker to tinker with their hardware to incrementally upgrade it.  Seriously, almost nobody games these days on a pre-built Dell or HP or whatever.  Anybody serious builds their own system to their specifications.  Deckers absolutely need the ability to do this, otherwise they might as well be called Script Kiddies.

And to (somewhat) firmly answer the subject question, cyberdecks should cost less than they do now.  How much less?  There's several good math reviews in this thread.  The deck needs to NOT cost so much that loss of deck is equivalent to loss of character, to allow for low money street scum or go gang decker's to exist, and to remove the shadowrun of "steal a cyberdeck" as a reasonable in-game goal.

I'd also like to see programs overhauled, both in price and scope of effect.  There's a huge number of programs at present, that are cheap enough to just take them all, yet only a tiny handful of them have any actual gameplay value.

[Krindi]

Also, on the distinguishing AR from VR decking.  What if decks had a bonus program slot for VR decking?  Commlinks with dongle's and a hot sim don't get the bonus.  This bonus program slot isn't walled off from the other ones the way a module containing a program carrier is, it's just an inherent bonus that's received for interfacing with the Matrix in a deeper manner than augmented reality.

[gilga]

I think that decks do not have that much value in them. Everyone can deck and having a fancy deck does not really make you a better decker the way that having a control rig makes the rigger a better driver or a power focus makes the mage a better mage.

Even the Erika can be pushed to a limit of 6 - and matrix requires subsequent rolls to operate. Each matrix action requires some marks and so on so you are rolling the dice a lot of times. If you only have say 20 dice as a good decker, you can reliably do 5-6 hits If 6 hits are not enough to win the roll then with a 20 dice decker even the 1 million deck will not do the trick. So I build very nice deckers even with the cheaper decks and post datatrails sometimes without a deck. I'd much rather have 20 dice with a limit of 6 then 15 dice with a limit of 9.

[falar]

I think that decks do not have that much value in them. Everyone can deck and having a fancy deck does not really make you a better decker the way that having a control rig makes the rigger a better driver or a power focus makes the mage a better mage.

This man, he gets what I hate about decks. If you upgrade your deck, you have better defenses and limits ... but your core competency doesn't change. You spend an astonishing amount of dough and it doesn't really help you outside of Attack damage.

So, in my mind, I've been toying with the idea of heat. A normal Matrix action costs no heat, but if you push it, you get more dice and start building heat. Up to a point, heat can just dissipate, doing no damage to the deck. After a point, you start dealing damage to your deck, which will give penalties.  That's about as far as I've gotten though.

[jim1701]

My biggest beef with decks is the relatively low device rating they have and their corresponding limitation on how many programs they can run.  I would disagree that better decks don't have much value to them.  Limits are important and so is both the device rating and program slots.  Whether that value is worth how much cash they cost is debatable. 

[Hobbes]

The Cyberdeck Device Ratings are important because of PANs.  It's actually more efficient to have a decent Commlink built to be a PAN Master rather than try and pick what 6 or 9 devices you want the Decker to slave. 


Theory crafting leads me to build a Decker with a small PAN of personal things with the Deck as a Master.  Then customize a Commlink to do nothing but sit there and provide a high Logic+Sleaze for the teams critical gear to run silent.

[CitizenJoe]

I think an RCC with a Sleaze done is probably the better option.

[jim1701]

I think an RCC with a Sleaze done is probably the better option.

Well, in missions (and at my table) dongles are for comlinks only.  I would assume that if they ever do official errata that will be one of the things cleared up.  IMO dongles on RCC's impinge far too much into cyberdeck territory. 

[CitizenJoe]

I believe the RCC is described as all the functions of a commlink plus the rigger functions.

[falar]

I believe the RCC is described as all the functions of a commlink plus the rigger functions.

That is true. RAW, you can put a dongle on an RCC. Many people believe that is not RAI.

[Hobbes]

The RAW argument for Dongles not working with RCCs is that the rules for Dongles don't specifically say they work with RCCs.  Seeing as how Kincade worked on the book and said that RAI is that Dongles don't work with RCCs most of the regulars around here roll with it.  YMMV.   

[gradivus]

I would love to have dongles on RCC but, alas, it is not to be... my rigger/decker will just have to do with a single bumblebee w/a panther X and a cyberdeck.

[falar]

That said, you just need to mod on Sleaze 1 and run Smoke-and-Mirrors and you're fine. Since it's an RCC, you can do +5 Sleaze and offset the noise entirely due to Device Rating.