[Longshot23]

The title says it . . . has anyone got any thoughts about what could constitute the dark side of transhumanism? Within SR, that is - let's not go into Eclipse Phase territory.

I don't mean cybermancy either - the concept behind that is completely different.

[psycho835]

Look no further than the closest bunraku parlor.
For even more fragged up drek, check out Maria Mercurial's backstory in Mercurial.

[Sendaz]

So you want a discussion on transhumanism, but not to stray into anything from Eclipse Phase.

And at the same time cybermancy, the blending of magic and technology-granted in a pretty crude method, is also off the board.

Maybe you could help refine your request with a definition of what form of transhumanism you want to ask about.

Because on the one hand, the whole CFD situation including the rewriting of a person by an external intelligence is pretty TransH already, though they have already squelched a lot of this.  That's part of the reason nanites took such a hit going into 5th as a way to rein in some of the more TransH possibilities they would have led to.
But if one considers that if it possible for an e-ghost/monad to be written in, how far behind until some corp bigwig has himself rewritten into another body as a backup plan.  Granted one could argue the essence of the man does not make the leap and this is just a rehashed clone, but then you go down the philosophy hole of consciousness vs soul and so on.

On another hand, while cybermancy as we see it now is fairly crude, it nonetheless is a SR version of the TransH path as it is a way to surpass normal human limits.  Again, it is not an ideal method, but refinements to the process nonetheless are being eagerly sought.  Plus since you are trapping the spirit inside whatever frame you construct you are preserving that original person, though they usually end up pretty twisted and torn up by the experience.

So if you can clarify what you are looking for a bit, we could certainly find a way to twist it to horrible ends.

[Crimsondude]

The idea that humanity needs to be transcended its inherently broken if you are a fan of the human condition.

That and the fact that you can't backup the metahuman soul means that any and all efforts are fatally flawed. You're not transcending humanity; you're replacing it with something else.

[Mirikon]

There's a few distinct groups in the Shadowlore that kindof speak to the 'dark side' of the transhumanism movement. Forget the names right now, but there are a couple augmentation addict type gangs going around, one that goes with the flashiest, most nonhuman chrome you can find, and another that utterly depersonalizes the individuals, all wearing matching leathers and bike helmets you can't see their faces through, riding similar bikes, never saying a word or even communicating to anyone outside the group. There's also a terror group in 10 Terrorists that believes that they can force a human-AI merger to truly jumpstart the singularity. And then there's CFD. Bodysnatching AIs using nanites to reprogram their hosts. In the corporate world, you have EVOPeople, with their freaky happy vibe and going way out on the augmentation side of things. And you could write a whole chapter about Plan 9.

[JanessaVR]

The idea that humanity needs to be transcended its inherently broken if you are a fan of the human condition.

Agreed.  I'm a transhumanist, and I'm not a fan of the human condition; I'd like mine fixed and replaced, posthaste.

[gradivus]

The idea that humanity needs to be transcended its inherently broken if you are a fan of the human condition.

Agreed.  I'm a transhumanist, and I'm not a fan of the human condition; I'd like mine fixed and replaced, posthaste.

As long as it's not the fembot from Serenity I wouldn't mind transcending into something else.

[Glyph]

Transhumanism is new enough in the Shadowrun universe that the player characters are the outliers, rather than the norm.  Sure, datajacks are fairly common and most people use AR mixed in with their normal interactions.  But street samurai feel like they are selling bits and pieces of their humanity away to keep their edge against the rest of the scum of the sprawl.  Awakened characters are alternately idolized, envied, and feared.  Technomancers worry that they could be abducted to be experimented upon by corporations seeking to unlock how their abilities work.  And humans have to share the world with metahumanity - towering brutes, beautiful and graceful creatures that can live decades longer than them - and with even more alien and powerful entities such as dragons and spirits.  The dark side of transhumanism has been a large part of Shadowrun since its inception.

[psycho835]

There's a few distinct groups in the Shadowlore that kindof speak to the 'dark side' of the transhumanism movement. Forget the names right now, but there are a couple augmentation addict type gangs going around, one that goes with the flashiest, most nonhuman chrome you can find, and another that utterly depersonalizes the individuals, all wearing matching leathers and bike helmets you can't see their faces through, riding similar bikes, never saying a word or even communicating to anyone outside the group.

The latter group would be Blindfish from 10 Gangs. Don't remember anything about them having a transhuman schtick. They are more "don't talk to anyone in public, communicate with other members via commlink." kind of guys.

[Backgammon]

Ta Makrinia from 10 Terrorist is decidedly on the dark side of Transhumanism. Or not. When you start talking about Transhumanism, really, I think there is only a grey side to it all. The question of "how far is too far" becomes sort of a question of taste at that point.

[Longshot23]

Okay, try this . . . the transhumanism as promoted by EVO seems to have multiple aspects of directed evolution, that they're pushing augmentation as necessary components of what it means to be metahuman. Horizon goes in a different direction, being more psychologically based, as opposed to physiological. Ares, as usual, is looking for whatever can be weaponised, so that could be considered dark side. The other big players haven't really been defined . . . as yet.

Hmm, it just occurred to me now the similarity there to the attitude among some New Dawn types that people who aren't Awakened aren't complete.

Anyway, the push to make what is 'now' (SRverse) available as bioware to be hereditable or available as geneware.

Thoughts?

[fseperent]

A part of Shadowrun's transhumanist views has to involve how / where people get their replacement body parts and bioware.
Look at Tamanous organ farms.
They grow wimps not only to have a stock of organs ready for transplant but also bioware.
You can bet your last nuyen they pay out the hoop for Type-O DNA that they can clone.