[FST_Gemstar]

Byder, buying hits is 4-to-1, not 3-to-1. It's a trade off of guaranteeing a lower number of hits than statistically average, instead of probably getting more hits and possibly less from rolling.

One could also say that summoning a spirit is an opposed test, where I would argue rolling should happen. The drain value is dependent on the spirits' hits so I would say buying is less ok for spirit summoning/binding. Spellcasting, however, is a threshold test with predetermined drain (based on force). As the caster, you choose the force of the spell, setting the max threshold. The drain is always a certain amount or less than the max you decide. I would say buying hits for tests to resist drain like this would be ok, as if you don't want to take drain, you have to decide to cast a spell at a lower force.

[bdyer]

Karma gen is probably the way to go with a character like this. Could use more starting money, fewer less starting magic/spells, etc. Thanks for the help, folks! I do always forget though, do karma buy characters get free contacts/knowledge skills now or not?

Whiskey: Fair enough. I guess I can boost the addiction pools of the character higher and advocate for edge use too. What is buying his for though? For me, I like buying hits for things that generally should be easy for a character (defined by 1 hit per four dice). I would have to actually roll for harder tests or ones that I am less likely to make, ones that I would need to be lucky to make. For me, if I don't need the excess hits, as per your drain example, like, the character is no better off rolling on awesome drain roll than a mediocre one, why not just recognize the character is strong enough resisting drain for such a test. If I had 8 drain coming my way, it would be statistically advantagous to roll (unless I guess the drain would kill you if you roll badly...)

Sr4 put it better than sr5 by putting this clause

If the character might suffer bad consequences from failing the test, then the gamemaster should require her to roll the test rather than buying hits.

Since there is the possibility of something bad then you roll.

[falar]

Sr4 put it better than sr5 by putting this clause

If the character might suffer bad consequences from failing the test, then the gamemaster should require her to roll the test rather than buying hits.

Since there is the possibility of something bad then you roll.

However, you're encouraged to buy hits when soaking large armor pools (most notably with vehicles) and it can just soak it. So there's clearly a GM call going on there.

[Marcus]

I'm not sold on this conceptually, it seems very backwards.
If your going to though I'd consider focing a spur or something?

[FST_Gemstar]

Having some chummer calculation issues again, so let me know if anything looks wrong about this.

I tried a Point Buy. I actually had trouble making the character work as a human, and had to go dwarf. I am also assuming I get free contacts and knowledge skills-if not the case then this definitely needs work.  I am not sure I like this better. Only two attributes 1 at ;-).  I can't tell if the spellcasting/spell expenditure is worth it. I'm ok with the original version only having Levitate and Detox as spells too with magic rating 1 . They are both basically one hit spells so having low magic and spellcasting can try them.  I kind of want more edge instead of more magic... I guess that may still be workable here.

Here it is:

Meta: Dwarf  - 50

Special Quality: Magician - 50

Primary Attributes: 310

Body: 3
Agility: 1
Reaction: 4
Strength: 3
Charisma: 5
Intuition: 5
Logic: 1
Willpower: 7 (9)
---
Physical Limit: 5
Mental Limit: 6
Social Limit: 8
Essence: 2.21

Special: 20
Edge: 2
Magic: 2

PQs: 22
Biocompatability (cyber)
Cyber-Singularity Seeker
Quick Healer
Jack of All Trades

NQs: -24
Addiction Mild (Cram)
Addiction Mild (Psyche)
Prejudice - Specific Outspoken (Wage Mages)
Records on File (Renraku)
Weak Immune System

Contacts: (15 -free)
Drug Supplier 5/2
Stret Doc 2/3
Fixer 2/1

Active Skills: 223
Assensing 3 (Aura Reading)
Astral Combat 6 (Weapon Focus)
Automatics 6 (Machine Pistols)
Blades 6 (Swords)
Perception 4 (Visual)
Spellcasting 5

Knowledge Skills (12 Free)

Spells: 10 (Chaos Tradition)
Levitate
Detox

Foci: 9
Rapier

Nuyen: 148 (296)

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Datajack (Alpha)
Narco
Nephritic screen Rating 2 (Alpha)
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 6, STR 8, Physical (Right)
   +Customized Agility Rating 6
   +Customized Strength Rating 8
   +Armor Rating 2
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 9, STR 11, Physical 10) (Left)
   +Customized Agility Rating 6
   +Customized Strength Rating 8
   +Enhanced Agility Rating 3
   +Enhanced Strength Rating 3
   +Armor Rating 2
   +Bulk Modification Rating 1
   +Cyberarm Gyromount
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 3, STR 3, Physical 5) (Left) (Alpha)
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 3, STR 3, Physical 5) (Right) (Alpha)
Smartlink (Alpha)
Tetrachromatic Vision

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                        12
Bike Racing Helmet                  2
   +Respirator Rating 6

== Weapons ==
Ares Crusader II
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 2 System
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   +Spare Clip
   Pool: 7 (9)   Accuracy: 7   DV: 7P   AP: -   RC: 4
Combat Knife
   Pool: 7   Accuracy: 6   DV: 5P   AP: -3   RC: 2
Horizon-Flynn Rapier
   Pool: 7 (9)   Accuracy: 7   DV: 5P   AP: -3   RC: 2
Survival Knife
   Pool: 7   Accuracy: 5   DV: 5P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 0   Accuracy: 5   DV: 3S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Commlink ==
MCT-3500 (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
   +Fake SIN Rating 4 [Fake License 4 (Weapon License), Fake License 4 (Concealed Carry Permit), Fake License 4 (Restricted Cyberware License), Fake License 4 (Driver's License), Micro-Transceiver, Subvocal Mic]

== Gear ==
Ammo: APDS (Machine Pistols) x40
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x100
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Medium Machine Guns) x40
Certified Credstick, Gold Rating 1
Contacts Rating 1
   +Image Link
Cram x10
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 2
Novacoke x10
Psyche x5
Red Mescaline x5
Survival Kit
Weapon Focus (Bonded Foci) (Horizon-Flynn Rapier) Rating 3
Zen x10

== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
   +Sensor Array Rating 2

Lifestyle
1 month Squatter.

Remaining Nuyen: 594
Remaking Karma: 2
(50 + 30 +310 + 20 +22 -24 +223 + 10 + 9 + 148 = 798)

[gradivus]

Byder, buying hits is 4-to-1, not 3-to-1. It's a trade off of guaranteeing a lower number of hits than statistically average, instead of probably getting more hits and possibly less from rolling.

One could also say that summoning a spirit is an opposed test, where I would argue rolling should happen. The drain value is dependent on the spirits' hits so I would say buying is less ok for spirit summoning/binding. Spellcasting, however, is a threshold test with predetermined drain (based on force). As the caster, you choose the force of the spell, setting the max threshold. The drain is always a certain amount or less than the max you decide. I would say buying hits for tests to resist drain like this would be ok, as if you don't want to take drain, you have to decide to cast a spell at a lower force.

Buying hits doesn't mean the spirit doesn't roll.

A summoner with 16 dice could buy 4 hits while summoning a Force 4 spirit. The spirit rolls his 4 dice and lucks out and gets 3 hits, the summoner takes 6 drain.

Where I wouldn't allow buying hits is during the middle of a combat but if its out of combat I see no problem.

[FST_Gemstar]

I will do a little reworking, but I did check the buying hits section of core again. I never played other editions of shadowrun so just took the two paragraphs as is.

Basically:
"Sometimes it can save time to skip test and allow a player to simply buy hits, especially if they are rolling so many dice they are fairly certain they'll succeed...Buying hits often should not be done if there is a chance of a glitch or critical glitch that might significantly change the course of the game's actions. You need GM approval to buy hits. If he doesn't want you to buy hits for the test, then you're not buying hits--get ready to roll"

So for me, it seems like it is generally a GM call. But buying hits if you can make a threshold with 1 hit per 4 dice in your pool rounded down (the definition of rolling so many dice they are fairly certain to succeed) is ok. The negative issue clause is based on glitching/critical glitching, not failure. For addiction tests, I don't see how a glitch/critical glitch significantly changes the course of the game's actions (though failure is definitely a negative outcome).

[FST_Gemstar]

I tried another point buy:

I've been on a changeling kick and I thought I might try one for this Astral Samurai character. I turned him into an elf changling now.  He actually combines some of my anti-mage concept as well, with some ranks in counterspelling. The character has no spells, as I don't think he really needs any. Maybe Levitate will eventually be worth it so that he doesn't have to climb himself in physical space. Character took Metagenic improvements in Willpower and Agility, to get Willpower to effectively 9 and to increase cyberlimb agility potential in his weapon arm (can get custom agility up to 8 instead of 7). Negative Metagenic reduce Body and Logic caps, and give the character a hint that the physical may not be his only native plane (critter spook, mood hair, and bio-luminescence).   I would like better cyberlegs for running purposes, but I don't think it is worth the investment yet. The character can get some agility upgrades, hydraulic jacks, and built in armor later.

The character starts pretty sparse skillwise, but point buy seems to work well with characters with few skills. I edited the character to have free knowledge and contacts per standard character generation rules.

I envision the character to be helpful on a team that doesn't have a full magician but has other mystic adepts or aspected magicians. They can focus on the casting/spirits, while this character can do the astral overwatch (attacking anything that comes near astrally), eventually go on astral quests,  and still bring a lot of heat to a fight. I know astral combat doesn't have a lot utility in 5th, but there is something to be said to be able to take on enemies no matter the plane they are on. His generally high attributes can make one rank skills go a long way down the road too.

 In terms of backstory. Perhaps he surged with the comet when a teenager, making him even more of a spectacle at the company school. The change gave hopes to him, his father, and his school that more magical potential would also arise, but also made people weary. When these magical abilities did not emerge, his presence was less tolerated, at least secretly, so any trouble he got into was a chance for him to get kicked out.

As always, I would some idea of how to improve, and what is the official ruling on free knowledge/contacts for point buy (I am thinking they are a no):

Karma Spent: Metatype 40 + Magician 30 + SURGE 30 + Attributes 390 + Special Attributes 25  + PQs 22 - NQs 25 + Nuyen 94 + Skills 185 + Foci 9 = 800


== Info ==
Name: Unnamed Character           Alias: Soul Knife Point Changling
Elf                               Movement: 6/12
                                  Composure: 16
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 12
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 11
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 10
Age:                              Skin:
Eyes:                             Hair:

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3                            CHA: 7
AGI: 3                            INT: 5
REA: 5                            LOG: 1
STR: 1                            WIL: 7 (9)
EDG: 3                            MAG: 1

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 1.21                     Initiative:           10 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 14         Rigger Init:          10 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 13             Astral Init:          10 + 2d6
Physical: 4                       Matrix AR Init:       10 + 1d6
Mental: 6                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 9                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
   Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral: 9

== Active Skills ==
Assensing (Aura Reading)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 6 (
Astral Combat (Weapon Focus )     Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 15 (17) [20 dice in astral w/ rapier focus]
Automatics (Machine Pistols)      Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 9 (11) [21 dice w/smartlink]
Blades (Swords)                   Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 9 (11) [22 dice in physical w/ focus]
Counterspelling                   Base: 0  + Karma: 4  = 4   Pool: 7 [6 dice with mountain spirit]
Perception (Visual)               Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 6 ( [11 visual with genemod]

== Knowledge Skills ==
English                           N                     
Magical Theory (Astral World)      3 (5)
Street Drugs                                      3   
Trids (Rom-Com)                              1 (3) 
Underworld (Black Magic)             2 (4) 

== Contacts ==
(Drug Dealer) (CON: 5, LOY: 2)
(Cyberdoc) (CON: 4, LOY: 3)
(Arcanalogist ) (CON: 3, LOY: 4)

== Qualities ==
Addiction (Mild) (Psyche)
Addiction (Mild) (Cram)
Bioluminescence [Skin]
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Critter Spook
Cyber-Singularity Seeker
Impaired Attribute (BOD)
Impaired Attribute (LOG)
Impassive
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Mountain)
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Metagenetic Improvement (WIL)
Mood Hair
Poor Self Control (Vindictive)
Prejudiced (Specific, Outspoken) (Wage Mages)
Quick Healer

== Lifestyles ==
Squatter (Squatter)  1 months

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Datajack (ALPHA)
Narco
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 11, STR 6, Physical 7) (Left) (USED)
   +Customized Agility Rating 8
   +Enhanced Agility Rating 3
   +Customized Strength Rating 6
   +Enhanced Agility Rating 3
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 3, STR 3, Physical 5) (Right)
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 3, STR 3, Physical 5) (Left)
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 3, STR 3, Physical 5) (Right)
Smartlink (ALPHA)
Tetrachromatic Vision

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                        14
   +Gel Packs
Ballistic Mask                      2
   +Respirator Rating 6

== Weapons ==
Ares Crusader II
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 2 System
   +Smartgun System, Internal
   Pool: 9 (11)   Accuracy: 7     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 4
Horizon-Flynn Rapier
   +Personalized Grip
   Pool: 9 (11)   Accuracy: 8     DV: 3P       AP: -3    RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 2        Accuracy: 4     DV: 1S       AP: -     RC: 2

== Commlink ==
Common Denominator Element (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 2, FWL: 2)
   +Fake SIN Rating 4 [Fake License 4 (Weapon License), Fake License 4 (Concealed Carry Permit), Fake License 4 (Driver's License), Fake License 4 (Restricted Cyberware License)]
   +Micro-Transceiver
   +Sim Module
   +Earbuds Rating 1
   +Subvocal Mic

== Gear ==
Ammo: APDS (Medium Machine Guns) x20
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x60
Certified Credstick, Gold
Contacts Rating 1
   +Image Link
Cram x8
Psyche x4
Survival Kit
Weapon Focus (Bonded Foci) (Horizon-Flynn Rapier) Rating 3

== Description ==
0 karma remaining

[FST_Gemstar]

might have more karma left jack of all trades auto calculation errors...

EDITED: To reflect more accurate karma expenditures

[Strange]

might have more karma left jack of all trades auto calculation errors...

EDITED: To reflect more accurate karma expenditures

Isn't JOAT only applicable after creation?

[FST_Gemstar]

Yep. It was applying during character creation originally for lower skill ranks, but then adding quite a bit more for high skill ranks. I had to recalculate and add JoaT at the end.

Edit: Yeah, the jump from rating 5 to rating 6 was coming up 26 karma (instead of 12). I guess that's how chummer interprets the 2 extra karma for each point of skill from 5 to 6. I never read it that way but that makes JoaT a more balanced quality than I thought.

[FST_Gemstar]

Nevermind again... found another issue - inflated base charisma when I was experimenting with metagenic charisma...

Edit: It basically means I'm 10 karma over on the build. It can drop Logic down to 1 and shave 2 knowledge skills to cover. Or Drop Edge to 2 and have 5 karma to spare. Or drop Tetrachromatic vision and go standard on the smartlink and datajack. I would vote Logic down to 1...