[gradivus]

I'd say roleplaying buying food involves roleplaying,
No dice or DPs need be involved.
Not everything has a threshold or opposed roll.

[Novocrane]

Another interesting topic is how do you interpret the situations in which you do not need a test.

IOW, situations in which you are not time pressed, in danger, using limited resources, or the outcome is considered unimportant.

How do you roleplay a character in shop buying food? Do you use:
1: Your charisma,
2: a suitable skill (here maybe etiquette) or
3. both
to define your skill level.

#1 to define your natural range of results, and #2 to define your training and expertise.

So, technically cha1 etiquette 6 character is as good in the shop as cha 6 etiquette 1 or cha 3 etiquette 4 characters. That's why we can use low skills or low attributes because only the final result (the number of dices in your dicepool) matters! YMMV.

You seem to be forgetting limits on tests, or boiling down to dice pools and some unspoken ratio of bought hits for situations without tests.

[ZombieAcePilot]

Why would either of your cha or etiquette matter? Is there a dress code the character doesn't meet and he is trying to smooth things over? You could be a big smelly trog with no social skills and still order a soy-rito from stuffer shack. Probably happens all the time, in fact.

Unless there is some reason that this would be complicated (the owner is trying to chase him out with a broomstick for scaring off the customers), why roll? Unless said character is acting as if he were an elf rock star, who cares?

For that matter, high charisma doesn't mean everyone loves you instantly. It may mean that you are impressive or demand attention that others don't, but doesn't guarantee that the guy behind the counter will react in a way you like.

[Facemage]

Another interesting topic is how do you interpret the situations in which you do not need a test.

IOW, situations in which you are not time pressed, in danger, using limited resources, or the outcome is considered unimportant.

How do you roleplay a character in shop buying food? Do you use:
1: Your charisma,
2: a suitable skill (here maybe etiquette) or
3. both
to define your skill level.

#1 to define your natural range of results, and #2 to define your training and expertise.

So, technically cha1 etiquette 6 character is as good in the shop as cha 6 etiquette 1 or cha 3 etiquette 4 characters. That's why we can use low skills or low attributes because only the final result (the number of dices in your dicepool) matters! YMMV.

You seem to be forgetting limits on tests, or boiling down to dice pools and some unspoken ratio of bought hits for situations without tests.

Limits. They are almost never a problem. My character have at least 4 in all limits always. And it's more than enough.

[Facemage]

Why would either of your cha or etiquette matter? Is there a dress code the character doesn't meet and he is trying to smooth things over? You could be a big smelly trog with no social skills and still order a soy-rito from stuffer shack. Probably happens all the time, in fact.

Unless there is some reason that this would be complicated (the owner is trying to chase him out with a broomstick for scaring off the customers), why roll? Unless said character is acting as if he were an elf rock star, who cares?

For that matter, high charisma doesn't mean everyone loves you instantly. It may mean that you are impressive or demand attention that others don't, but doesn't guarantee that the guy behind the counter will react in a way you like.

Hmm, I think that I said: No test needed. So, why are you speaking about rolling?

[gradivus]

Against unopposed test, since there are very few thresholds above 4, yeah, ok
In opposed rolls, 4 limit bites the big one.

[gradivus]

Why would either of your cha or etiquette matter? Is there a dress code the character doesn't meet and he is trying to smooth things over? You could be a big smelly trog with no social skills and still order a soy-rito from stuffer shack. Probably happens all the time, in fact.

Unless there is some reason that this would be complicated (the owner is trying to chase him out with a broomstick for scaring off the customers), why roll? Unless said character is acting as if he were an elf rock star, who cares?

For that matter, high charisma doesn't mean everyone loves you instantly. It may mean that you are impressive or demand attention that others don't, but doesn't guarantee that the guy behind the counter will react in a way you like.

Hmm, I think that I said: No test needed. So, why are you speaking about rolling?

Another interesting topic is how do you interpret the situations in which you do not need a test. How do you roleplay a character in a shop buying food? Do you use:
1: Your charisma,
2: a suitable skill (here maybe etiquette) or another attribute or
3. both

to define your level of competence. Your roleplaying should reflect that competence level.
In our table we use always the option 3.


I believe that the highlighted portion indicates that your table uses CHA+skill or CHA+Other Attribute, which means DP and a DP's only function is in rolling.

Maybe that's were we got it from.

[Facemage]

In our table roleplaying abilities are based on character's stats, not the real players acting skills or other abilities. That's why an autistic player can easily play a face, or a fragile nerd an athlete characters.

The shopping example was maybe a bad example because it seems that you did not understand it.

[ZombieAcePilot]

My bad, reading... So hard. >.>

I honestly don't need to know someone's stats or skills to role play. Play it out. I might need a roll if a faux pas came up, other than that they will react based on what you do. Just because you can walk into a room and own it doesn't mean you do that every time.

Nothing is quite so painful or boring than watching a person who won't talk try to play a face. You have to at least try. It's called roleplaying, not "dice generated world simulator" playing.

What do you do if a player rolls tactics and scores a bunch of hits? Tell him how to win the encounter? Seems kinda pointless, since that is the fun of the game.

[Facemage]

#1 to define your natural range of results, and #2 to define your training and expertise.

You can really do as you want (that's why the phrase YMMV). But for me the attributes have also other funcions than define the limits only. Because the attributes affect on the real tests (i.e. you try to sneak in), they affects also on less severe situations similarly (my maybe too easy shopping example). And thus the dice pool define your abilities, not a single skill or attribute.

[Facemage]

My bad, reading... So hard. >.>

I honestly don't need to know someone's stats or skills to role play. Play it out. I might need a roll if a faux pas came up, other than that they will react based on what you do. Just because you can walk into a room and own it doesn't mean you do that every time.

Nothing is quite so painful or boring than watching a person who won't talk try to play a face. You have to at least try. It's called roleplaying, not "dice generated world simulator" playing.

What do you do if a player rolls tactics and scores a bunch of hits? Tell him how to win the encounter? Seems kinda pointless, since that is the fun of the game.

Where in the corebook is a tactic skill? I have never seen it?

So if you are a smart player, you can easily play a log 1 int 1 characters such that they still behave like Einstein. Why to create characters at all?

Basically if you play with competent friends you can set the level of roleplaying to some high level. And indeed play differently. But for example I cannot because in our country there is not many players playing Shadowrun. That's why the abilities of characters in our table are based on character's stats and sometimes a player can really act similarly, sometimes not.

[Novocrane]

Limits. They are almost never a problem. My character have at least 4 in all limits always. And it's more than enough.

Do they have Cha 1?

[ZombieAcePilot]

You could... You'd be an asshole and the GM might start calling on checks to have you back up that swagger you shouldn't have. Not really any different than trying to get away with picking a troll off the ground with STR/body 1.

Some game designers think that logic, intelligence, or cha shouldn't be game stats because they aren't able to be role played well (you don't become a genius because your character is, nor do you become less socially ackward for having a high cha).

Security tactics is often seen as a skill. Knowledge skills also aren't drawn from a set list.

[Facemage]

Limits. They are almost never a problem. My character have at least 4 in all limits always. And it's more than enough.

Do they have Cha 1?

My current build is face/mage so he has high cha. But limit is based on 3 stats and if the other 2 are high, the low cha does not really matter. A hermetic mage with cha 1 have 6 and 5 in other stats => 5 to limit. Moreover you can rise your social limit with mortimers, if needed. A sam with cha 1 and low essence is not possible at least for me.

[Facemage]

You could... You'd be an asshole and the GM might start calling on checks to have you back up that swagger you shouldn't have. Not really any different than trying to get away with picking a troll off the ground with STR/body 1.

Some game designers think that logic, intelligence, or cha shouldn't be game stats because they aren't able to be role played well (you don't become a genius because your character is, nor do you become less socially ackward for having a high cha).

Security tactics is often seen as a skill. Knowledge skills also aren't drawn from a set list.

Yes, but you can easily roleplay more stupid than you really are. And if the team does not know what to do, a gm can give a hint to the player, whose character's intelligence is the highest. And so on. At least you can simulate higher intelligent. The result is not maybe a perfect, but should it really be?

Some game designers may think that way, but in Shadowrun your characters have cha, int and log. And because they have those attributes, what it matters, what some designers think?

With a good security tactics you know what generally the security workers do, but it does not never give you a knowledge what is behind the next door in an unknown building. And in combat situations the gm can give you dice pool benefits if you have security tactics knowledge. Simililarly as small unit tactics can give bonuses.

But these are only opinions. You can do as you want because of fun. It's completely ok for me if you play differently.