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The Ecology of the Shedim

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #60 on: <01-20-16/0611:48> »
Were this an In-Game discussion, you could take CitizenJoe's psychodrama and use it lock, stock, and two smoking barrels.  In regards to the actuality of What Shedim Want, it's to turn you, everyone you knew, and all six degrees of seperation between you and every other living organism on the planet into squeaky wheel grease.

And they'd best be described as Daleks: "Exterminate!  Exterminate!! EXTERMINATE!!"  Except in comparison, all the suggestions you give are sweet and fuzzy in comparison.
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #61 on: <01-20-16/0723:46> »
I'm not saying you should be all chummy with them, just trying to get you to realize we probably aren't any better than them on the scales of morality. 

MijRai

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« Reply #62 on: <01-20-16/1149:25> »
Because we're not capable of emotions besides hatred?  Because we don't act to do good things?  Yeah, no.  If you wanted to argue that point with insect spirits, I'd listen up.  They're not evil, they just want to do what most species want to do.  Grow, spread, repeat.  We just happen to occupy an unfortunate spot (or two) on their life-cycle, otherwise they'd probably ignore us.  Shedim are explicitly said to be inimical to all life in nature and behavior. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Mirikon

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« Reply #63 on: <01-20-16/2100:57> »
Shedim are what you get when you mix a Dalek and the Marquis de Sade.

And MijRai is correct. Insect spirits are less 'evil' and more doing what they must to survive. Hell, even shadow spirits don't cause torment and anguish for the hell of it, but because that is their food. Same with the Infected feeding on people. Shedim stand apart because while taking bodies is what they need to do to survive here, actively seeking to exterminate as much life as they can is what they CHOOSE to do, and they choose it willingly and knowingly. THAT, not the bodysnatching, is what makes them evil.
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Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #64 on: <01-22-16/0029:34> »
I remember a while back where Joe tried to defend the Horrors like he is currently doing for the Shedim. Which is how we got to the conclusion that horrors are really the Care Bears, but they hug to hard. Shedim, just want to be friends (with your corpse so his buddy can posses it and cause murder).

As for what the Shedim want, to murder everything that is considered alive. Heck, they probably include other spirits too, just can't posses those on our physical plane of existence.
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

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Mirikon

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« Reply #65 on: <01-22-16/1044:23> »
Indeed, Rift. And this is why everyone keeps telling Joe he's full of it. I'm actually starting to think he might have a masochistic need for criticism.

You can make solid arguments for creatures like insect spirits or the Great Old Ones of the Lovecraft mythos not being evil. Insect spirits view us the same way we do a side of beef and a new outfit from the store all rolled into one. There isn't malice there (except with Ares, and malice is understandable with people who try experimenting on you). The GOOs (with a couple exceptions) don't intentionally cause insanity and death in their passing, but rather are like humans accidentally stepping on an anthill. Again, no malice there.

Shedim and horrors, however, are actively malicious and delight in causing pain and suffering. The most powerful among them make an art form of it. Pinhead from the Hellraiser movies is the Disney version of Horrors. Remember, the last time they came to play, everyone who wasn't in sealed underground magic bunkers for over a hundred years DIED, or had to turn themselves into twisted half-plant creatures constantly suffering from thorns breaking through their skin in order to make them not taste so good. And even many of those who were sealed in bunkers died, because the Horrors broke in.
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Longshot23

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« Reply #66 on: <01-22-16/1135:29> »
I'd have to agree. Shedim & worse don't really fit in a grey-on-greyer game - such is better off dealing with all the shenanigans metahumanity cares to inflict on itself.

But I stand by my wish for an in-game world, canon expansion to shedim. I'm kinda surprised noone debunked the Spirit Flute at Babylon idea . . .

MijRai

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« Reply #67 on: <01-22-16/1156:33> »
They don't fit as one of the few examples of black?  I've always considered gray and grayer to lose all meaning without some black and white to delineate. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #68 on: <01-22-16/1217:47> »
I never went to the Care Bear assertion, that's a Strawman Fallacy.  My assertion is that, while Horrors and Shedim and dark spirits are bad, corporations and people in general can be so much worse, and usually under the guise of the "Greater Good".  That is the kind of evil that makes you question your own morality.

The worst a Shedim can do is shorten your life (nobody lives forever).  But they didn't perform the Great Ghost Dance which still has lingering effects of north america to this day.  They don't keep amputated and Lobotomized women pregnant and alive so that street doctors have undifferentiated t-cells to fix you up after a fight.  They don't genetically engineer food crops to be addictive so that an entire population is enslaved.  They don't "foul their own nests". 

To me, Shadowrun is all about putting out that unfathomable evil monster and then finding out that it was on a leash the whole time. 

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #69 on: <01-22-16/1228:37> »
The worst a Shedim can do is shorten your life (nobody lives forever).
This is quite telling; you quite clearly don't know what Master Shedim are capable of.

Mirikon

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« Reply #70 on: <01-22-16/1327:10> »
CitizenJoe: for those times when you want to make Plan 9 sound sensible.
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #71 on: <01-22-16/1507:08> »
The worst a Shedim can do is shorten your life (nobody lives forever).
This is quite telling; you quite clearly don't know what Master Shedim are capable of.
I assert that this shows that you don't know what Man is capable of.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #72 on: <01-22-16/1543:34> »
You'd be wrong, Joe. I wasn't commenting on what humanity is capable of, merely that you're dead (hah!) wrong if you think the absolute worst a Shedim can do is kill you...

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #73 on: <01-22-16/1547:09> »
Weren't you guys just explaining how Shedim aren't complicated with their motives are are strictly dedicated to ending life?

Sendaz

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« Reply #74 on: <01-22-16/1548:53> »
I think Herr B is referring to how a Master Shedim can kill you then bring in a ringer to take over the body, thus swelling their ranks.

Now if you don't worry about your corpse after you are gone it's a moot point, but many humans tend to get funny about post-mortem possession.
« Last Edit: <01-22-16/1552:12> by Sendaz »
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