[ZeldaBravo]

I actually see far more Resources B sammies then A.  You can get enough bang for your buck with Resources B.  Resources A tends to only happens when they're going F U L L   C Y B E R B O D Y.

That is very different than my experience with Samurai builds.  You can certainly get a lot of milage out of Resources B, but if you're going for Wired Reflexes and the assorted Agility and Str mods you're going to run short somewhere.  Wired 2, Used Reaction 3, Muscle Aug and Muscle Toner?  You're not getting that for Resources B.

That's not necessery right. I've made a street samurai for my friend and they happen to have most of that.


== Attributes ==

BOD: 3
AGI: 6 (
REA: 5 (9)
STR: 5 (7)
CHA: 2
INT: 5
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 5

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Bone Lacing (Plastic) Alphaware
Cybereyes Basic System Rating 2 Standard
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
   +Thermographic Vision
   +Eye Protectors (Ballistic Glass)
   +Flare Compensation
Datajack Alphaware
Hand Razors Alphaware
Muscle Replacement Rating 2 Alphaware
Reaction Enhancers Rating 2 Alphaware
Wired Reflexes Rating 2 Standard

[All4BigGuns]

That leaves less than 20,000 for armor, weapons, ammunition, miscellaneous necessary gear, lifestyles and Fake SINs and Licenses (which are pretty much required these days and have been since 4th). A single Fake SIN of decent rating (4) with the licenses needed for the weapons is over 10,000 by itself. You're going to seriously run into cash problems on less than Resources A.

[Hobbes]

I actually see far more Resources B sammies then A.  You can get enough bang for your buck with Resources B.  Resources A tends to only happens when they're going F U L L   C Y B E R B O D Y.

That is very different than my experience with Samurai builds.  You can certainly get a lot of milage out of Resources B, but if you're going for Wired Reflexes and the assorted Agility and Str mods you're going to run short somewhere.  Wired 2, Used Reaction 3, Muscle Aug and Muscle Toner?  You're not getting that for Resources B.

That's not necessery right. I've made a street samurai for my friend and they happen to have most of that.


== Attributes ==

BOD: 3
AGI: 6 (
REA: 5 (9)
STR: 5 (7)
CHA: 2
INT: 5
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 5

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Bone Lacing (Plastic) Alphaware
Cybereyes Basic System Rating 2 Standard
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
   +Thermographic Vision
   +Eye Protectors (Ballistic Glass)
   +Flare Compensation
Datajack Alphaware
Hand Razors Alphaware
Muscle Replacement Rating 2 Alphaware
Reaction Enhancers Rating 2 Alphaware
Wired Reflexes Rating 2 Standard

Which is very similar to what I'd do with Resources B.  But note, not maxed out for Unarmed damage which was the point.  You're short on Bone Augmentation, and only +2 Agility and Str.  If you're strictly comparing Unarmed damage a Physical Adept will be able to match what that build is able to punch.  It's likely that the Sami build above will have other skills though, as would the Adept.  But that build is what, 16 Dice at 8 or 9 DV?  A Physical Adept can easily match that.

[Strange]

To this day I have no idea what Elemental Strike is meant to actually offer.

Core rule book, page 170-171.

[falar]

To this day I have no idea what Elemental Strike is meant to actually offer.

Core rule book, page 170-171.

It's meant to offer two pieces of glossy paper? ... Weak.

[ProfessorCirno]

Boost Agility lasts several turns, drain is trivial to manage, I've never had a problem keeping it running, and there are an assortment of martial art or quickdraw options for making melee attacks when you don't have a complex action.  YMMV, but it's only really a problem if your GM wants it to be.

But I'm not talking melee.  I'm talking unarmed.  Come on, I explicitly mention this in the first post as one of the problems unarmed has!

That is very different than my experience with Samurai builds.  You can certainly get a lot of milage out of Resources B, but if you're going for Wired Reflexes and the assorted Agility and Str mods you're going to run short somewhere.  Wired 2, Used Reaction 3, Muscle Aug and Muscle Toner?  You're not getting that for Resources B.

Easy - Wired 1.  With reflexes and intuition both at five, Wired 1 + Used Reaction Boosters 3 gives you 2d6+15, which is good odds for two initiative passes.  Wired 2 improves your odds to get those two init passes but does not offer substantial odds of getting 3.  Wired 2 is an improvement, but it's an improvement you can hold out on.  In my experience Resources A is more used for bio-sammies.  Furthermore, for melee characters, Attributes becomes substantially more important as you now require very high strength - we don't all leave half our stats at 1, Hobbes.

[All4BigGuns]

Dude, a completely unaugmented Human can easily spend all of Resources C and still need to dip into the karma coming at 'Finishing Touches' for more.

Start adding in augmentations and it really goes up into the stratosphere.

[Marcus]

Until errata drops, Mana blade is the strongest thing currently, but no gm in their right mind will let it in as written.

Death touch has F-6 drain code. Just about anyone can overcast it all day every day and suffer no drain at all. Add a fetish and we have a F10 direct combat spell for 2 drain and yet it is somehow not as strong as a manablade? Even a Manabolt spell has a better DV than Manablade.

Can't parry a mana blade, you can parry death touch. Also death touch won't scale with unarmed success, the unarmed part will. But that part is subject to armor, the mana blade is not and is only subject will and cs.  Once mana blade is fixed I'll agree with you.

[ZeldaBravo]

You shouldn't attemt to fix something that's not broken.

[Strange]

Boost Agility lasts several turns, drain is trivial to manage, I've never had a problem keeping it running, and there are an assortment of martial art or quickdraw options for making melee attacks when you don't have a complex action.  YMMV, but it's only really a problem if your GM wants it to be.

But I'm not talking melee.  I'm talking unarmed.  Come on, I explicitly mention this in the first post as one of the problems unarmed has!

That is very different than my experience with Samurai builds.  You can certainly get a lot of milage out of Resources B, but if you're going for Wired Reflexes and the assorted Agility and Str mods you're going to run short somewhere.  Wired 2, Used Reaction 3, Muscle Aug and Muscle Toner?  You're not getting that for Resources B.

Easy - Wired 1.  With reflexes and intuition both at five, Wired 1 + Used Reaction Boosters 3 gives you 2d6+15, which is good odds for two initiative passes.  Wired 2 improves your odds to get those two init passes but does not offer substantial odds of getting 3.  Wired 2 is an improvement, but it's an improvement you can hold out on.  In my experience Resources A is more used for bio-sammies.  Furthermore, for melee characters, Attributes becomes substantially more important as you now require very high strength - we don't all leave half our stats at 1, Hobbes.

An initiative of 2d6+15 guarantees 2 passes, with a good shot at a 3rd.  Also, unarmed is melee.  I understand you meant not armed, but it is a fine distinction.  Martial arts do have a little to offer. 

Ultimately, I think unarmed is fine.  I mean, there is a reason wars have always been fought with weapons, they are superior.  I don't feel they are that underpowered, but that is my opinion.

[Hobbes]

Boost Agility lasts several turns, drain is trivial to manage, I've never had a problem keeping it running, and there are an assortment of martial art or quickdraw options for making melee attacks when you don't have a complex action.  YMMV, but it's only really a problem if your GM wants it to be.

But I'm not talking melee.  I'm talking unarmed.  Come on, I explicitly mention this in the first post as one of the problems unarmed has!

Do a different simple action?  Lots of options.  Such as readying your Knucks?  Taking a hit of Jazz?  Activate a second Boost?  Throw a  Grenade?  Activate your Boost before you start the fight?

You're talking about unarmed damage here, you're never going to win theory crafted DPS contests.  Your play experience may be different than mine, but the Killing Hands adept in my campaign really doesn't lack for combat actions.  The Assault Rifle toting Samurai puts more targets down when the fit hits the shan, the Physical Adept is the go to for stealth takedowns and fancy ninja tricks.  Unarmed damage is a niche thing, for stealth, infiltration, and concealment. 

That is very different than my experience with Samurai builds.  You can certainly get a lot of milage out of Resources B, but if you're going for Wired Reflexes and the assorted Agility and Str mods you're going to run short somewhere.  Wired 2, Used Reaction 3, Muscle Aug and Muscle Toner?  You're not getting that for Resources B.

Easy - Wired 1.  With reflexes and intuition both at five, Wired 1 + Used Reaction Boosters 3 gives you 2d6+15, which is good odds for two initiative passes.  Wired 2 improves your odds to get those two init passes but does not offer substantial odds of getting 3.  Wired 2 is an improvement, but it's an improvement you can hold out on.  In my experience Resources A is more used for bio-sammies.  Furthermore, for melee characters, Attributes becomes substantially more important as you now require very high strength - we don't all leave half our stats at 1, Hobbes.

Int 5, Reaction 5, Wired 2, Used Reaction 3 is 15 + 3d6, and is roughly a 95% chance of 3 actions.  Wired 1 is 14 + 2d6 and is roughly a 58% chance of 3 Actions.  Personally I consider 95% a substantial chance, it's a shot I'd take in XCOM every time, 58% is essentially a coin flip.  And if you're Attributes is A or B it's actually impossible to have half your stats at 1 if you spend all your stat points.  Although with a B you could have 3/8ths of your stats at 1 if you really wanted.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Glad multiple people called out the initiative 15+CDs is automatically 2 passes.

As for the crit strike not stacking with knucks, that is odd? Critical Strike you pick which 3 melee skills (or exotic weapon) you want it to work with and bam +1 dv. So yes, it works with knucks, they're unarmed skill based weapon, or any other unarmed skill based weapon.

[Strange]

Glad multiple people called out the initiative 15+CDs is automatically 2 passes.

Easy - Wired 1.  With reflexes and intuition both at five, Wired 1 + Used Reaction Boosters 3 gives you 2d6+15, which is good odds for two initiative passes.  Wired 2 improves your odds to get those two init passes but does not offer substantial odds of getting 3.

Just pointing out the flaws in this statement, to try to avoid confusion.

[Hobbes]

Glad multiple people called out the initiative 15+CDs is automatically 2 passes.

As for the crit strike not stacking with knucks, that is odd? Critical Strike you pick which 3 melee skills (or exotic weapon) you want it to work with and bam +1 dv. So yes, it works with knucks, they're unarmed skill based weapon, or any other unarmed skill based weapon.

Table stuffs.  Some GMs may differentiate between Knucks and not-Knucks apparently?  But, yes, Crit Strike Unarmed should stack with knucks.  And Bone lacing or any other cyber/bio weapons that use Unarmed for that matter.

[adzling]

If you're going adept/ magic i'd consider way of the warrior.
Yes it's 20 karma but it will grant you 1.5 or 1.25 free power points if your magic is 6.

And as you may not know Adept ways do not contribute to max positive quality limit during chargen.

I just build an Oni brawler/ missile master using this approach.
See below (FYI we houserule that a specialization in a martial art confers +2 dice when attempting a technique you have from that martial art).

Priorities:
ATTRIBUTES
MAGIC
METATYPE
SKILLS
RESOURCES

oni brawler adept
METATYPE: ONI
B 6, A 7, R 5/7, S 6, W 3, L 3, I 5, C 2, ESS 6, EDG 1, M 6
Condition Monitor (P/S): 11 / 10
Armor: 14
Limits: Physical 9, Mental 5, Social 5
Physical Initiative: 10/12+3D6
Active Skills: Gymnastics 6, Sneaking (Urban +2) 6, Throwing Weapons (Non-Aerodynamic +2) 6, Unarmed Combat (Ninjitsu +2) 6
Knowledge Skills: Japan Pop 1, Small Unit Tactics 3, Street Drugs 3, Yakuza 3
Languages: English 4, Japanese N, Or'Zet 2
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Addiction (Mild): Kamikaze, Adept, Mentor Spirit: Thunderbird, SINner (National SIN): Japanese, Striking Skin Pigmentation: Bright red, blue or orange skin, The Warrior's Way: Counterstrike, Missile Mastery, Combat Sense, Tough and Targeted, Vendetta
Adept Powers: Combat Sense (1), Counterstrike (1), Critical Strike: Unarmed Combat, Enhanced Accuracy: Throwing Weapons, Improved Reflexes (2), Killing Hands, Missile Mastery, Motion Sense (6m) (3dicepool[5] (Varies)), Nerve Strike
Gear:
   Armor Jacket
   Ballistic Mask (Customized)
   Contacts (3) w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Smartlink
   Horizon BoomerEye w/ Camera
   john smith w/ (1 month) Street Lifestyle
   Novatech NetNinja
Weapons:
   Knucks [Unarmed, Acc 9, DV 8P, AP –]
   Shock Glove [Unarmed, Acc 9, DV 9S(e), AP -5] w/ Internal Battery
   Tusks [Unarmed, Acc 6, DV 7P, AP -1]
   Shuriken x20 [Throwing Weapon, Acc 10, DV 7P, AP -1]
Contacts:
Gang Boss (Connection 2, Loyalty 1)
Pharmacy Tech (Connection 2, Loyalty 1)
Starting ¥: 1,625 + (1D6 × 20)¥