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Stacking 'Trodes and UDPs

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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #15 on: <02-20-16/0038:33> »
And there's no reason why you would funnel wireless traffic through several consecutive Datajacks. That's like using a keyboard, plugged into a keyboard... to type on your PC.
Invalid analogy is invalid. Modern day AD/DA converters use serial and/or parallel processing to filter and process signals. If memory serves, parallel processing is more accurate but more expensive both in hardware and potential efficiency gains, at least after a certain point. There are probably sigint guys on here who could elaborate a lot more on this than I, but suffice to say that the tech you so casually dismiss as having "no reason" to exist in Shadowrun has a solid real world equivalent.

If you want to disallow stacking the Noise Reduction of multiple datajacks for game mechanics/balance reasons, that's fine and dandy; your table, your rules. But making blanket statements about how fictional tech based on real world tech that has been around for years doesn't make any sense, well, that just doesn't make any sense.

Remember; all extremes are bad. Except this one ;)

And there's plenty of reasons for many runners to have been around before the WMI, leaving lots of in world reasoning for why a character would have multiple datajacks. Keep in mind that the Wireless Matrix has seen widespread, global usage for less than a decade as of 2074; any runner, and especially Decker, in his mid-20s likely grew up with the wired Matrix and has every reason to have at least one, if not more than one, datajack...

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #16 on: <02-20-16/0053:57> »
Except there are other similar threads about antique implants and gear, like pre-wireless Smartguns that didn't require a Matrix connection to award bonus attack dice. And all of those threads have ended in "Well, this is how it works now. Those antiques don't award bonuses anymore, unless you do what the new rules say."

So regardless of why Grandpa Festus has a bunch of archaic Datajacks in his head, they aren't going to provide the same effects as a store bought Datajack today (well, you know... 2075's "today").

If someone wants to RP having a bunch of leftover chrome brass from the good ol' days, that's fine. But they don't get to stack the current Wireless Bonuses on top of it. Maybe they get multiple hardline connections, but that's about as far as I would go.

Since you don't like the keyboard chain analogy, how about this... picture wearing several Bluetooth headsets simultaneously. Each one is paired with a different cell phone, and they're all set to respond to voice commands. When you say "Call Mom" aloud, each phone is going to think you were talking to them, and start dialing. Now your poor mother has the phone ringing off the hook with all of those calls at once.

If you allow chaining Datajacks together to form a super Noise buffer, you may as well allow chain Slaving of devices. Noise vs Noise Reduction along with stout Firewall vs limited number of Devices... each was put in place for game balance. Stacking Datajacks, like chaining Slaves, is just cheating.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #17 on: <02-20-16/0553:19> »
Again, invalid analogy.

Hobbes

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« Reply #18 on: <02-20-16/1018:51> »
Same thing would most likely happen if you tried to get multiple Datajacks implanted. They'd both be sending and receiving to the exact same locations in your brain, and when you tried to think commands towards one of them, the other(s) would try and execute too.

Multiple Data Jacks is explicitly supported already.
Well... kinda.


Missions FAQ/Errata says the noise reduction from multiple data jacks stacks.  Say that three times fast....

Tongue twisters and analogies aside, multiple data jacks are fine for Missions which is about as close to an official ruling as we'll likely see.  Everyone is of course free to play it however they want at their table.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #19 on: <02-20-16/1808:42> »
Same thing would most likely happen if you tried to get multiple Datajacks implanted. They'd both be sending and receiving to the exact same locations in your brain, and when you tried to think commands towards one of them, the other(s) would try and execute too.

Multiple Data Jacks is explicitly supported already.
Well... kinda.


Missions FAQ/Errata says the noise reduction from multiple data jacks stacks.  Say that three times fast....

Tongue twisters and analogies aside, multiple data jacks are fine for Missions which is about as close to an official ruling as we'll likely see.  Everyone is of course free to play it however they want at their table.

Wait what? Where in the Missions FAQ does it state that? It's not something I've noticed...
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Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #20 on: <02-20-16/1821:27> »
Same thing would most likely happen if you tried to get multiple Datajacks implanted. They'd both be sending and receiving to the exact same locations in your brain, and when you tried to think commands towards one of them, the other(s) would try and execute too.

Multiple Data Jacks is explicitly supported already.
Well... kinda.


Missions FAQ/Errata says the noise reduction from multiple data jacks stacks.  Say that three times fast....

Tongue twisters and analogies aside, multiple data jacks are fine for Missions which is about as close to an official ruling as we'll likely see.  Everyone is of course free to play it however they want at their table.

Wait what? Where in the Missions FAQ does it state that? It's not something I've noticed...

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23441.0

Unless there's a different Missions FAQ we're supposed to be looking for, this is the most current (dated 2/17/16).

And using the handy Ctrl F, there is no mention of Datajacks stacking.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #21 on: <02-20-16/1910:11> »
Same thing would most likely happen if you tried to get multiple Datajacks implanted. They'd both be sending and receiving to the exact same locations in your brain, and when you tried to think commands towards one of them, the other(s) would try and execute too.

Multiple Data Jacks is explicitly supported already.
Well... kinda.


Missions FAQ/Errata says the noise reduction from multiple data jacks stacks.  Say that three times fast....

Tongue twisters and analogies aside, multiple data jacks are fine for Missions which is about as close to an official ruling as we'll likely see.  Everyone is of course free to play it however they want at their table.

Wait what? Where in the Missions FAQ does it state that? It's not something I've noticed...

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23441.0

Unless there's a different Missions FAQ we're supposed to be looking for, this is the most current (dated 2/17/16).

And using the handy Ctrl F, there is no mention of Datajacks stacking.

Can confirm that... the only times Datajacks are mentioned is using the cable to access throwback/wireless off devises and that a character with Otaku to Technomancer requires a Datajack.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #22 on: <02-23-16/1407:37> »
Same thing would most likely happen if you tried to get multiple Datajacks implanted. They'd both be sending and receiving to the exact same locations in your brain, and when you tried to think commands towards one of them, the other(s) would try and execute too.

Multiple Data Jacks is explicitly supported already.
Well... kinda.


Missions FAQ/Errata says the noise reduction from multiple data jacks stacks.  Say that three times fast....

Tongue twisters and analogies aside, multiple data jacks are fine for Missions which is about as close to an official ruling as we'll likely see.  Everyone is of course free to play it however they want at their table.

Wait what? Where in the Missions FAQ does it state that? It's not something I've noticed...

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23441.0

Unless there's a different Missions FAQ we're supposed to be looking for, this is the most current (dated 2/17/16).

And using the handy Ctrl F, there is no mention of Datajacks stacking.

Can confirm that... the only times Datajacks are mentioned is using the cable to access throwback/wireless off devises and that a character with Otaku to Technomancer requires a Datajack.

Yeah, my bad, not in the FAQ, was a Dev post by the Demo team.  So 2nd most official answer you're going to find.

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #23 on: <02-23-16/1419:07> »
Quote
C-c-c-c-combo breaker!!!
Yeah, my bad, not in the FAQ, was a Dev post by the Demo team.  So 2nd most official answer you're going to find.
Yeah, about that... they've recently started coming back and saying that Freelancer input on the forums really just amounts to another member of the community arguing RAI vs RAW. It's not "official" errata, and thus doesn't change the game aside from recommending house rules.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

Hobbes

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« Reply #24 on: <02-23-16/1724:49> »
"They" ? 

Anyway, if the assorted writers, developers and folks that actually have input into the official rules don't count as RAI I don't know what does.  Plus a couple decades of history of multiple Datajacks and no real strong RAW argument for not stacking. 

You are of course free to do as you will at your table. 

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #25 on: <02-23-16/1729:39> »
"They" ? 

Anyway, if the assorted writers, developers and folks that actually have input into the official rules don't count as RAI I don't know what does.  Plus a couple decades of history of multiple Datajacks and no real strong RAW argument for not stacking. 

You are of course free to do as you will at your table.

I believe the intention is to make a distinction between "Input from someone who worked on the material" and "This is official errata". They can certainly be taken as strong grounds for house rules, but not as anything official.
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Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #26 on: <02-23-16/2015:02> »
Plus a couple decades of history of multiple Datajacks and no real strong RAW argument for not stacking.
A couple decades of hardlined Matrix, where you needed all those ports in order to interface with all your gear.

These days, everything is wireless. You don't need to hardline into anything anymore, unless you really want to. And it's far easier to handwave a Hub you can plug everything into, than it is to allow compounding Noise Reduction to the point that you have no hindrances.

SR5 added distance based Noise into the equation, to force Deckers out of the basement and into the van with the rest of the team. If you can sacrifice a single point of Essence, and a mere 1,000¥, in order to give yourself an automatic +10 Noise Reduction... there's no reason to leave the safety of your pillow fort.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

Hobbes

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« Reply #27 on: <02-23-16/2157:30> »
Deckers can stay in the pillow fort just fine.  Satellite dish and assorted stacking noise reduction makes it fairly easy.  Stacking Datajacks not required, just makes it slightly easier, or able to park the Van further back.  The main motivation for Deckers to get out of the Van is for direct access, or to gain physical access for hardware or other required tests.  Or if by GM fiat that remote hacking doesn't work.  Or to do things other than Decking.  *shrug*  If the playstyle appeals to a player they can accomplish it even if stacking Datajacks is disallowed at a particular table. 

And "...all those ports in order to interface with all your gear."  was the point of the OP.  I'm not sure why a basic function of DataJacks would suddenly stop, clearly YMMV.   








Rooks

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« Reply #28 on: <02-24-16/0554:29> »
also everything has a universal cable port and deckers can double as getaway drivers if they stay in the van

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #29 on: <02-24-16/1408:26> »
What Hobbes said. Satellite Link + 5 points of Noise Reduction is likely more cost effective both in terms of Nuyen and Essence than 10 Data Jacks, and has the benefit of being unequivocally legal. Stay At Home Hackers are not hampered by distance related noise at all, if they decide they want to compensate for it.

Instead, those hackers will face host ratings they cannot circumvent, at least not as long as the GM doesn't allow Direct Connections to be gained wirelessly via Data Taps.

So that's the driver (wait for it) for getting hackers out of the van (hah!), not distance related noise...