[Glyph]

What is both a strength and a weakness of the Shadowrun rules is that they support a wide variety of play styles and power levels.  Some GM advice is good.  Useful hints, time-saving tactics (such as the "use the highest modifier" option), and optional rules tweaks are all good.  One thing I wish they had more of is examples and walkthroughs - comprehensive ones that cover complicated situations, not basic ones.  But you want to be careful not to sound like you are telling GM's the "right" way to run the game.

I would like a book with more GM crunch, though.  Stats for typical guards that go beyond generic mooks, examples of matrix and magical defense setups, and so on.  They have done some of this, but I would prefer one corporate security/runner's toolkit type package, instead of getting this and that piecemeal in location or adventure books.

[Shadowjack]

Let me try coming at this from a different angle. Yes, the GM book isn't going to sell as many copies as other books, but, would it help retain players? I think it would because Shadowun is VERY complicated compared to most games and so many new players don't actually know how to run the game. Having a very detailed guide would make GM's prepared and confident, their sessions and campaigns would be better, everyone would have more fun. So ultimately it's about reduced profit from the GM book combined with, in theory, more profit in the long run. Not to mention the fact that the community does have interest in the book and imo we kind of deserve a GM book considering how complex the game is.

[Reaver]

I don't really disagree with that.

But, I will say I think CGL has other areas that need attention, and would be a better use of current resources and leave it at that....

[Wakshaani]

There're a few moving parts here to consider. For instance, do you mostly want a rules-walkthrough and clarification? Do you want how to design adventures? How to handle NPC interaction? Do you want to train a GM from the ground up in how to construct a story or do you want to show how to wiggle through layering rules? There're a few different angles, and getting that plan right goes a long way.

Like, for myself? aaron Allston's Strike Force was a *Bible* on how to run a game, on how to identify players, and, in a real sense, how to be a GM. Buffy teh Vampire Slayer opned my eyes to the concept of seasons and how to build a game with that mindset (So huge!) ... Champions brings an understanding of character downsides and both how to use them and how OFTEN to use them. D&D brings adventure-as-flowchart and resource management ... there are a ton of little elements that blend together and can really up your game. What's obvious to one group isn't to another, and everyone gets exposed to a new idea for the first time... those lessons can change *everything*.

Heck, Shadowrun's probably the single best game for having a co-GM, an idea that most gamers I've run into have never even considered. (Two GMs? Madness! You just need one!) Once you lay out the bonuses, some people click to it quickly.

Complex topics to navigate, this.

[Hobbes]

Like, for myself? aaron Allston's Strike Force was a *Bible* on how to run a game, on how to identify players, and, in a real sense, how to be a GM. ....  Champions brings an understanding of character downsides and both how to use them and how OFTEN to use them.

Ah, a Champions survivor.  I knew I liked you.  Personally I was exposed while still in Jr. High to the first edition, practically printed out one at time on the old Daisy Wheel printers.  Phenomenal game, especially for it time.  The whole idea of Fire, Ice, Electricity, all the same mechanically, write whatever fluff you want to describe it was a revolutionary concept to me at the time. 

I do wish more games took the approach of granting players complete say on the stuff that doesn't mechanically drive anything.  Shadowrun is not so good at this as character fluff drives a lot of mechanical choices.

Sorry, off topic... uh.  More GM stuff!  Raw!

[Kincaid]

I'd love to see a Corporate Security book updated for 5th edition.  It would be easy to cram a ton of crunch as well as GM design ideas into a book like that.  The crunch would (hopefully) make it appealing enough that you don't create an overly narrow market. 

[adzling]

Gogo kincaid & wak!

I'd buy a corpsec book in a hot minute.

[Wakshaani]

Like, for myself? aaron Allston's Strike Force was a *Bible* on how to run a game, on how to identify players, and, in a real sense, how to be a GM. ....  Champions brings an understanding of character downsides and both how to use them and how OFTEN to use them.

Ah, a Champions survivor.  I knew I liked you.  Personally I was exposed while still in Jr. High to the first edition, practically printed out one at time on the old Daisy Wheel printers.  Phenomenal game, especially for it time.  The whole idea of Fire, Ice, Electricity, all the same mechanically, write whatever fluff you want to describe it was a revolutionary concept to me at the time. 

I do wish more games took the approach of granting players complete say on the stuff that doesn't mechanically drive anything.  Shadowrun is not so good at this as character fluff drives a lot of mechanical choices.

Sorry, off topic... uh.  More GM stuff!  Raw!

Don't get me started. I'll go on about the glory of Deathstroke and yammer about the old days for *hours*. Yeah, I picked up man of the OLD printing-style books back in the day as well, but weirdly my fist super-RPG ws Golden Heroes. We only found teh GM book, so reverse-engineered all of the powers.

Good times, good times.

But, off topic.

Now, was everyone aware that there HAD been a corporate security handbook, back in 2nd ed?

[Shadowjack]

I think the GM book can be layed out in a plethora of ways. I think it would be interesting if it explained overarching campaign themes, how to create main atagonists, how to handle social scenes such as shopping, dining, attending a sporting event, a section of security, an explanation of how fencing items actually works, how to set up a double cross from Mr. Johnson, GM pitfalls to avoid, the use of foreshadowing, building a compelling story for your campaign, a section on how to handle character death and when to intervene and when to allow/disallow burning edge, and so on. There are tons of hot topics to include in this book and it would actually be invaluable and settle a lot of heated debates. I would be stoked if this book actually got published and I would read it over and over. It's essentially a tool to make shadowrun more fun and more fun means more people playing the game and buying merchandise.

[Critias]

And it was consistantly the worst selling book. For whatever reason, people just do not buy books that tell them either how to roleplay, or how to GM.

More than likely the real reason for these books and the setting-only books not selling that well regardless of system, game or company is because just about every company puts a price tag on them that is the same as the more useful (more useful for more people that is) books. If all of those were cheaper, they'd sell more readily.

That's because you don't get a discount at the printer or the shipper, or ask the writer or the artist or the layout guy to work for free, just because a book isn't "useful."  You put a price tag on a book because you need to pay the people that make the book.  Yes, the price tag is the same on a DM's Guide as on any other product, because you have to work to make it, just like any other product.

[PiXeL01]

The Corporate Security book was marvelous, however all the information (or most at least) can now be fun in the CRB along with much of the specialized equipment. What isn't found gets introduced when the rest of the core books got released (fab, rail drones etc).

But as always a new book would be nice with new nasties to challenge your players yet

[Marzhin]

One of my favourite Shadowrun books ever was Mr Johnson's Little Black Book, for SR3. I had been mastering Shadowrun for a couple of years but I found the read enlightening on many aspects. Some update of that for SR5 would be cool I think (although I think some of it already found its way into the SR5 core rulebook).
Just my two cents

[PiXeL01]

I still delve into both from time to time ^^ (Black & Security)
I kind of hope they'll bring CC security back again.

[Shadowjack]

One of my favourite Shadowrun books ever was Mr Johnson's Little Black Book, for SR3. I had been mastering Shadowrun for a couple of years but I found the read enlightening on many aspects. Some update of that for SR5 would be cool I think (although I think some of it already found its way into the SR5 core rulebook).
Just my two cents

I didn't own that one back in the day. I've been tempted to buy it even now just to see if I can add anything to my GM skillset. I would be very happy with a 5th edition version although I would prefer a general GM guide. However, if both become available that's even better

[Sipowitz]

And all of that leaves me with the hope of getting one specific core book some time in the future. Let's call it: "HOW TO BLOODY GM THIS THING!" written by all the experts which do those 4-hour Mission stuff at Cons, by the masters and visionaires of all the cool stuff and gadgets in the book - by the experts. Make it 10 Bucks, make it 50 bucks - heck MAKE IT 100 BUCKS. I would buy it. I would buy it for me and a copy for everyone on my table.

Once you get pass the idea of "experts" you're making progress.